Get Started Reading Monster Romance

Many of our discussions are aimed at those already in the Monster Romance genre. This one’s got the baby monster f*ckers in mind. Stacy, EJ, and Amy talk about pitfalls we’ve noticed others run into (not naming names!). And we have wisdom for finding your ideal monster romance gateway. And, yes, we do have some recommendations sprinkled throughout!

Authors, Books, and Series We Mention:

• Dusk Walker series (https://www.goodreads.com/series/345992-duskwalker-brides)
• Vera Valentine’s books, Squeak and Unhinged (https://www.valentineverse.com/books)
• Dragon's Bride by Katee Robert (https://www.kateerobert.com/the-dragons-bride)
• Deceived by the Gargoyles by Lillian Lark (https://www.lillianlark.com/pnr)
• I Married a Lizard Man by Regine Abel (https://www.regineabel.com/books/i-married-a-lizardman)
• Morning Glory Milking Farm (and the rest of The Cambric Creek Series) by C. M. Nascosta (https://cmnascosta.com/books/)
• Harley LaRoux (https://www.harleylaroux.com/)
• Tiffany Roberts (https://www.authortiffanyroberts.com/)
• Orc Sworn series by Finley Fenn (including The Lady and the Orc and The Maid and the Orcs) (https://finleyfenn.com/series/orc-sworn/)
• Uncertain Magic by Laura Kinsale (https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/802157)
• Beauty by Robin McKinley (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/41424.Beauty)
• Rose Daughter by Robin McKinley (https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/8089)
• Emma Holly (https://emmahollyauthor.wordpress.com/)
• Kresley Cole (https://kresleycole.com/)
• Gena Showalter (https://genashowalter.com/)
• Tail and Claw by Nancey Cummings (https://nanceycummings.com/tail-and-claw/)
• Lark Green (https://www.authorlarkgreen.com/)
• Cate C. Wells (https://www.catecwells.com/)
• Ashley Bennett (https://ashleybennettauthor.carrd.co/)
• Ruby Dixon (https://rubydixon.com/)
• Lyonne Riley (https://www.lyonneriley.com/)
• Susan Trombley (https://susan-trombley.com/)

Transcript

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Stacy 0:00

Monster dick. Wieners! You're welcome.

EJ 0:09

That's a brilliant opening. You're welcome. We are your hostesses, ej, Stacy, and Amy. we're still going to, we're still on our, our bookish discussion. What's the word I'm looking for? Trend, wave, track, I mean, we're, we're, we're, we're on like, we're on a bookish discussion path. We do have specific book. Discussions like in cube, but this ain't it. Instead this is us talking about all for all the newbie Monster fuckers out there all of our baby monster fuckers. How does one even get in to the monster? Romance genre so today we're going to be talking about some reviewers Influencers Who have have explored this. I kind of talk about some of our favorite ones, or really, I'm just going to be sitting down and listening to a lot of Amy talk about. Some of her, her most entertaining observations, and then we'll also talk about some recommendations that we would have for those who are kind of interested in this, frankly, outrageous and weird genre, and we know it's, it can be outrageous and we know it can be weird. That's why we like it. And we want you to enjoy yourself too. So let's get into it, shall we? Yeah. Yeah. So, Amy, as monster romance gets more popular and more visible, we're starting to see more bloggers of different kinds influencers, reviewers, what have you. They're reading it and they're talking about it. And I kind of like, you know, What are some of the most entertaining reactions that you have encountered so far?

Amy 2:04

Okay, well, first and foremost when it comes to monster romance, we all know that there's a spectrum. And the funny thing is, is that when some of these readers choose to go, they, they choose to go wide. It's like, some of them are like, oh, we're going to dip our toes, we're going to read a little vampire romance, maybe read a little shifter romance, you know, that's monster, monster romance light, something to that extent. And then there are those that are reading, say what is Opal Raines first book, A Soul, My Soul, or A Soul to Take, or something

EJ 2:40

like that. Something like that, yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, Opal Raines like, what's her Dust Walker series? Yes,

Amy 2:47

the Dust Walker series, yes. And basically where there, there's, there's tentacles involved with the peons.

Stacy 2:52

Yes. So yeah.

EJ 2:55

And there's skulls. Or,

Amy 2:57

or there could possibly be some borderline vore going on. Yes. Do

EJ 3:04

we know what vore is? Let's give a definition for our listeners. Okay.

Amy 3:10

Vore is basically the idea of experiencing sexual euphoria in the act of typically being eaten. And we're talking not eating

Stacy 3:21

out. We are talking about We're talking actually consumed. Yes,

Amy 3:25

or just, perhaps, just, you know, nommed on a bit in a giant mouth or something like that. Which actually,

Stacy 3:33

one of the

Amy 3:34

reviewers, she experienced that with was it a Cleo Adams book or something like that? I don't know, because it involved dragons and they were dragon shifters, technically, and she basically kind of was like, I didn't know what was going on, and I'm like, honey, you've obviously never experienced,

Stacy 3:52

or heard of it. I'm not going to lie, boar makes me uncomfortable. That is understandable.

Amy 3:59

Boar is a very, very specific sub niche of interest.

Stacy 4:03

I think boar, to me, because I, it's the same thing that I have where, like, there's a, you know, like a genre, a popular genre in horror movies is cannibalism, and I get the same squick from cannibalism movies that I get from boar.

Amy 4:18

Fair. That is totally, totally fair.

Stacy 4:20

Which again, I'm not yucking anybody's yum, I'm just saying, it's not for me.

EJ 4:24

Yeah, no, fair enough.

Amy 4:26

And then you have those that go completely off the deep end and I have to wonder if it's mostly because of their patrons or their followers that are encouraging, coaxing urging them to read said books, such as Vera Valentine's erotic door novella.

EJ 4:46

Vera Valentine, you're fucking awesome. Bless you. Your niche rocks. It certainly does. I also, at the same time, do not understand people who are like, This is outrageous! I'm like, well, it's, it's a balloon animal. That's fucking you. Oh yeah, Squeak.

Stacy 5:05

Yeah. Squeak! That hadn't been a A multi partner one, I totally would have read that.

Amy 5:13

I will say oftentimes these influencers slash booktubers or whomever, they will, they will of course be up front about this and say, my patrons made me read this, or I read this so you don't have to. Fair enough, fair enough. Or something like that. Yeah, yeah. It's funny, especially when they choose to do a reading vlog, where they're, you know, they're, they're, they're recording as they're reading the book, and they're like, They just kind of stop and they're like, okay, so blah, blah, blah, and I'm just like, ah, I don't know how this is going on or what's going on. And you just watch their

Stacy 5:51

eyes just kind of like, or

Amy 5:54

just kind of like, or their, their mouths are gazing over like, ah,

Stacy 6:01

no, man, that's the thing is, is with, with things like that is like, you got to lean in, but you got to double down.

Amy 6:08

I, I get that, but I also appreciate some of the reviewers that really take it, they take it very, not very seriously, but professionally because this, this is their, this is kind of their job, and one, one of the ones she actually rated them on several different scales, basically on story, on monster Monster spectrum, like she classified vampires and werewolves as being a one whereas,

Stacy 6:38

oh, like in terms of like strangeness basically? Yes, correct. Mon relatability to, there's monstrousness

Amy 6:44

is like that and like Kaulu would be five and that, that was what she stuck with was like one to five and like a three was. Where she put some, some, some of them, like she had read The Dragon's Pride by Katie Roberts, which she actually did it, that it was actually the best of Katie Roberts that she had read, because she had a hard time, she's had a hard time getting into Katie Roberts stuff, but, for for the dragon, I forget what his name is, but she put him out of three, because he is humanoid, there is some human in him, because that's what they're, they're doing, they, They mate with humans too so there's obviously some sort of human in him as well, but you know, he does have two peens, two lovely eggplants.

Stacy 7:27

He does. And

Amy 7:29

then she also rates them as, you know, love him or list him, I guess, as

Stacy 7:34

in, I don't know what listing is, yeah, I guess,

Amy 7:39

I guess, yes, I guess that, and then also, like personal preference or whatnot, and she would, you know, give her rating for, like, oh, it's like, I really loved him, but, or, I'm like, their, it's like, their dynamic wasn't really my thing, so it'd be a pass, or, smash or pass, there we go. Smash or pass. Oh, smash or pass, yeah. Yes, yes. So, and, she pretty, it's funny, Stacey, because she also classified and she, she's like, she was thinking, you know, Oh, I really should classify Alien Romance in it, because she is a Ruby Dixon fan, she loves her Ice Planet romance. And her favorite one was Floor's something or other?

Stacy 8:19

Floor's Fiasco.

Amy 8:20

That's it, yes. And that's, that was the one where she really, that was her overall monster, that was her

Stacy 8:27

dream. Oh, nice, very nice. But she

Amy 8:31

had read she had read The Dragon's Bride, Deceived by the Gargoyles, which Also wasn't her thing because she, the one she really, the one she really, really liked was Broderick, and of course Broderick's awesome, but When it comes to reverse harem and polyamory, it's like she ends up wanting to focus on just one pairing rather than all of it, so That's why she's like, it's really a pass for you because I can't really I don't really do

Stacy 8:57

the multi lovers, right? Yes. Yes. Same thing for

Amy 9:00

me. So I think I think you'd appreciate that about about her stuff, too. What else did she read? She read the first of the Duskwalker books to because Orpheus had his whatever but she the issue she had with with that couple was The likeability of the, of the main characters, she had a, she had a hard time liking them, which is why she's like, meh, he'd be a pass, not a smash,

Stacy 9:24

and yeah. Like, like, the likeability of male and female characters, or just male characters, or just female? No,

Amy 9:30

both, both of them, both of them. Gotcha. Main character, main male character and yeah, but just, I mean, she's very, she's very thorough in her process because she loves statistics. Honestly, EJ, I think you might enjoy following her as a BookTuber because she goes into her stats. And she is a big romance reader. I actually love watching her because she's always like, oh, hello. It's just, it's, it's really nice. And

Stacy 9:58

then It sounds like she's very, it's like her, her information is approachable is what it sounds like. Yeah. It

Amy 10:03

really is. It really is. She's very honest in her reviews and she tries to find the positive in all of what she reads, even if her ratings may not be the highest. I think out of all the monster romance books she read, the lowest rating she gave was like three stars,

Stacy 10:25

which is great. Okay, so that's not bad. I mean, that's average. So yeah,

Amy 10:28

she, she enjoyed pretty much all of them. And then there was another reviewer who I actually had watched her reading blog of when she read three Particular monster romances, and one of the, she read I Married a Lizard Man by Regine Abel.

Stacy 10:47

That's a good one. Classic. The

Amy 10:49

Dragon's Pride. I need to reread that one. By Katie Roberts. And the third one, what was the third one she read? Was it Morning Glory Milking Farm? I think that's what it was. Yes, it must have been anyways, this one she, she actually had an, a list of recommendations for Monster Ramen. Some of this like, yep, yep. I, I am totally on board with what you're recommending because I've read quite a few of these and I, I like what you're saying about them. At least the ones that I had read, there was like one in there a Harley LaRue

Stacy 11:19

one. I've heard of Harley LaRue, but, yes, yes, yes, yes, that's a really good book. She did, she

Amy 11:25

recommended that one, like, I haven't read it, so I don't know, maybe it is, maybe it's not. If it's

Stacy 11:30

the one I'm thinking of, it's excellent. Where he's like her, he's like a demon who sort of eats her pain from her like childhood religious trauma. Yes, that's an excellent, excellent book.

Amy 11:44

Yeah. But like the, like the previous one who did all the stats, she enjoyed The Dragon's Bride a lot, she enjoyed Mourning Glory Milking Farm a hell of a lot more than she was expecting. And that was actually one that I'm, I'm, I'm wanting to see if she's read A Blue Ribbon Romance, because like, you're gonna get the same story, but you're gonna get Rourke's point of view, which of

Stacy 12:05

course is

Amy 12:06

Because you don't always get, you don't always get the male

Stacy 12:09

point of view. Right, for sure. And if you love a story, it's always awesome when you can find a new source of, where you can glean information.

Amy 12:19

She also read the first of the Kraken books, which it took her a

12:23

bit

Stacy 12:23

of time. The Tiffany Robbins Tiffany Roberts Krakens. Yes, exactly.

Amy 12:26

Mm-Hmm. Sorry, I should clarified. Yes. The first of the Tiffany Roberts Kraken books. And she said it took her a bit of time to get past the Monstrousness. I'm like, that's the beauty

EJ 12:36

of

Stacy 12:36

that stuff. Yeah. But if you're new though, like true, because I can remember when I started reading Sci-fi romance. It was like, okay, well, you know, I can handle a Ice Planet Barbarians, but I, I, they're fine because they're just like, you know, they're basically humans with extra implements and, but they're blue, but they're human and, and now it's just like, it's a sentient blob efflexor. Great. Sign me up. I'll read it.

Amy 13:01

I totally get it, Stacey. But yes, and, and, and they, they, all of them have admitted, well, with the exception of the first one I mentioned, it's like they're, they're new to monster romance. I mean, I get it. When you're new, you kind of want to, you know, sort of slowly make your way in or something. Some people are like that. Others are like, let's just dive right into the cannonball area. The brain,

EJ 13:25

soul, souls even I like started with just Ruby Dixon, like I was, I was super chill or cause yeah, they're very human like but you know, it, it was fun because they essentially have. Okay. Rabbit vibrator style dildos for penises. And I was like, I see possibility here. And it kind of just, it went from there. Yes.

Amy 13:54

So we had. So I'm going from the really big heavy stats person to the one who really enjoyed a lot of what she did read and she, she does kind of want to get more into monster romance, but just, you know, kind of feel her way through some of the series that she had already read books from. And then we have the one who cannonballed into some areas and I'm just like, Sweetie, why did you do that? And this one actually had read This is the one who had read the first of the Well, not first. I think it was book two of Cleo Evans Monster Cafe, Cryptid Cafe. Cryptid Cafe? Oh, yeah, yeah,

Stacy 14:35

yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's like an ongoing series. Yes, it is.

Amy 14:40

And she was just kind of thrown off by, by the, the vorishness going on with the dragons. And and then she read Seed by the Gargoyles, and she's like, I didn't really like that as much because there was a lot of the use of the word seed, and da da da da da, and other stuff, and just, she kind of went into it, and then, That's when she also got into the Maid and the Orcs, and I'm just

Stacy 15:06

like, Sweetie, you didn't like Seed

Amy 15:09

that much in there. I'm sure it was mentioned

Stacy 15:12

quite a bit in Maid. I, yes.

Amy 15:15

The weird thing is, is that in her review, she's like, Unironically, I really liked this. But it's probably a bad book. And I'm like, What do you mean

Stacy 15:24

by unironically?

EJ 15:26

Right. I don't feel the need to unpack her statement there. I feel the need for her to feel the need to unpack

Stacy 15:32

that statement. Yeah. Like, do it for yourself.

Amy 15:36

She's like, she loved it, but she was like, it was a bad book. I'm like, what do you mean? I don't know if she feels guilty about liking it. She's like, she enjoyed it, but she's also admitted that she couldn't recommend it. I'm like

EJ 15:48

I mean, for someone who's new to Orcsworn, I would not recommend, I would very unlikely recommend The Maid and Orcs for a newbie. I would probably be more like, start with number one, The Lady and the Orc, and, you know, go from there.

Amy 16:11

The funny thing was that she just, she just dove right on in into book six, having not read books one through five, and I'm like,

Stacy 16:20

I just, I don't understand, yeah, like, why would you jump in the fucking

EJ 16:23

middle of it? I, I'm just over here like, you know, Family Fun writes like bricks. We, we could build a goddamn igloo with that woman's books. You know, so like. I'm also thinking, you're starting in the middle of a series. You're starting in the middle of a series of a writer who is almost hilariously known for writing very chonky books, so it's a commitment. She

Amy 16:48

also complained about that. She's like, this was really long. I read it in two days, but I don't think the book needed to be

Stacy 16:54

this long, and I'm like, Oh, for fuck's sake. That's like that dip shit that when I was looking at the, the S. J. Sanders. Series and it was like pumpkin spice and everything nice or something like that and had a fucking jack o lantern on the cover and they gave it two stars because they don't really like Halloween and it's like, but you picked up a book with a fucking jack o lantern on the cover.

EJ 17:12

I think something that's very important. I wrote this in my little newsletter blog and I stand by it. Finley fans, core readers, are size queens. And that is in two senses of the word. They like big books and big Orc dicks. And they get both.

Stacy 17:40

Yep, that's right. I 100 percent agree with it. Drown me in words and drown me in words. And

EJ 17:47

so, like, on one hand, I groan. But also, on the other hand, I'm like, you know what, I really feel like a quick visit to Finley Fenn's Discord. would have cleared a lot of stuff up real damn quick. No judgment, but we would have been honest with you.

Stacy 18:03

Yes.

Amy 18:05

And it's, it was just, it was hilarious because she's like, this is why she's like saying, I don't know if monster romance is for me. I'm like, that's funny. With as big as a spectrum as Monster Romance is, you can find ones that actually don't involve luck, it's so calm.

Stacy 18:26

She mentioned that. That's not your bag, that's not your bag. Yeah.

Amy 18:30

Absolutely. I'm like, I get that, but you're gonna, you need to keep digging. Yes, you're gonna have to read a few that are maybe, or you don't even have to finish

Stacy 18:40

the ones that you start. Mm

EJ 18:42

hmm. Remember. Oh, absolutely. Embrace DNF. Embrace the DNF.

Amy 18:46

Embrace the DNF. Exactly. It is okay to stop reading a book

Stacy 18:49

and one thing that I would like to see people do more is You can look at a book and be like, you know, this just isn't for me. And that doesn't make it a bad book. That just means it's not a good fit for

EJ 19:00

you. Right. And it has nothing to do with you as a reader or it as a book. It just means you

Stacy 19:07

don't match together. Right. It just means that they're, you know, your personalities don't mesh and that's okay because it happens. I mean, it's the, again, it's like that dip shit that read the SJ Sanders book and then gave her two stars. 'cause she doesn't like Halloween stuff. It's like, that doesn't make it a, a, a bad book that makes you bad at choosing your reading. This is true. Fucking you're

Amy 19:26

not being true to yourself. You are not being true to yourself as a

EJ 19:31

reader. Yeah, there is. I I do kind of, I, I, I, I do kind of like see around with the idea of reading terrible reviews. Like hilariously terrible reviews, like what you described there, Stacey, like a Halloween book and you didn't like it because you don't like Halloween. And yet here you are reading a book where the theme is Halloween. It sort of reminds me of like, oh, there were some, there are a couple of American late night shows that We'll have like celebrities read terrible tweets about themselves. Yes, mean tweets, yeah. Mean tweets. I, I don't think I would, it is not many authors that I would be like, you want to read aloud some mean reviews about yourself? I mean, we could do that. And then we would laugh. I, I, and we could make them absolutely anonymous. I have no interest in like doxing someone for their terrible book choices.

Amy 20:28

No, because you just,

EJ 20:30

what's the point? What is I, I don't, I don't want that internet karma. No, no, no, no.

Stacy 20:35

It's just,

Amy 20:36

it's a funny thing because You have, you have, you have actual readers that enjoy monster romance and once you find your area that you like in monster romance, you kind of, you kind of stick with it and you go, go there and then maybe you feel out into one area. There's, there's some books that I'm kind of like, I might want to read this. I don't know if it's right now that I'm ready for it, so I'm gonna stick to Kindle Unlimited TBR.

Stacy 21:07

Right. Well, and again, that's the thing with monster romance is, I really feel like you can't If you're gonna read monster romance, read fucking monster romance. Like, you can't I'm trying to think of how to word this, like, it's not, I, what I'm trying to say makes sense in my head, but I know if I say it out loud it's going to come across insulting in a way that I don't intend. Basically, if you're gonna wander out into weird, you have to expect weird.

Amy 21:38

I think that is kind of what a lot of the reviewers that I have seen. Mm-Hmm. they accept that. Mm-Hmm. And oftentimes we'll say, they will say that it's like, this part, this kind of weirdness was not really for

Stacy 21:51

me. Right. And that's totally okay. Oh yeah. You know, and that's legit stuff just isn't, you know, like, again, I don't, I don't say romance or, or, or reverse. Harem is terrible. Mm-Hmm. I just don't care for it. Mm-Hmm. correct. And there's nothing wrong with reverse harem, there's nothing wrong with people liking reverse harem, it's just not what I'm looking for.

EJ 22:13

No, absolutely. Like, it's I

Amy 22:15

know not to recommend reverse harem books to Stacey, she knows not to recommend Omegaverse

Stacy 22:20

to me. Exactly. Or particularly dark dubcon. Yeah.

EJ 22:27

And the beautiful thing I would say about Monster Romance is how it keeps on growing. So I think there's even, every single year I swear there's more avenues for people to enter and explore Monster Romance. Hell yeah. That's the beauty of it. Yeah, we, we had touched on this in Amy, I'm going absolutely. I'm going to credit you for this tip because like one of my questions is what tips do you have for the baby monster fuckers out there when they're trying to get into this world? Right. And I thought you had some great wisdom on our chat, which was fine. Start with a genre that you know you like. And then find monsters in it. And I was like, that is clever.

Stacy 23:15

I would also say, another thing too is find a monster you think is sexy and look for that. That's true too. You know, like if you're into vampires, find some fucking vampires. If you're into elves, like there's all kinds, like I would consider fae romance to be

EJ 23:32

monster fucking. Absolutely. Yeah, you know,

Stacy 23:35

and just the variety of what you have out there for fae romance. I mean, you, you can find everything from like shifters to polycules to changelings. Yeah. To Sarah J. Moss, which, you know, not for me, but to each their own.

EJ 23:54

Right. Yeah. And, you know, you got, if, if your starting point is pretty boy fairies, I am, I am personally inclusive enough of a monster fucker. I'm like, good start. Sure. Good start.

Stacy 24:07

You know. If I can think of worst ways to start, should I give you some recommendations? Right. Heck, my

Amy 24:11

first start was vampires and werewolves. Yeah. Technically, that's, that was more

Stacy 24:16

paranormal romance, but. They're still monsters.

EJ 24:20

Right.

Stacy 24:20

Because I've been reading romance novels since the 80s. Like, I started reading way too young. I think I was 10 when I started to read my mother's romance novels. Mm hmm. And one of my favorite books of all time, it's still one of my favorite books, is called Uncertain Magic by Laura Kinsel. And it's not monster fucker, but it's monster fucker adjacent. And it actually deals with Irish fairies and sort of the ramifications of them playing with humans, essentially. And both of the, the the hero and the heroine are both human, but they're both fey touch. And so it's kind of like how it's impacted both of their lives. And, and that was kind of the start for me because that book is so, it was so unusual compared to everything else. Because my mother ended up getting a free copy of it with, with a Joanna Lindsay book and he was defined off the heart when it was released. So it was like by Joanna Lindsay's and you automatically got the Laura Kinsell book like shrink wrapped to the Laura to the Joanna Lindsay. And so my mom got that. Those books for her birthday from my much older sister, and I was curious about Uncertain Magic because it was just like, like, there was nothing on the cover. It literally just said Uncertain Magic in purple and was like, free copy with Joanna Lindsay's To Find Out the Heart. And and I read it and just fucking fell in love with it. And so, like, that was kind of, like, my first exposure to monster fucking. But then, like, you would occasionally find, like, the odd, like vampire novel, if you were lucky. And I was really into vampires as a teenager, so that was fine with me. But true monster fucking, like, I can only think of one werewolf story. When I was a teenager, and it wasn't even a true werewolf, it was someone, it was a Rebecca Brandewin short story about an Irish chieftain who was under a curse to believe he was a werewolf and he'd wear this wolf skin, basically, when he was in this hallucinatory state, basically. But it was super hot because She was drugged and thought she was being fucked by a wolf, basically. And so, like, 16 year old me is like, alright, I'm listening. And and then in the ending it was a whole, like, it broke the curse, I didn't think it was a wolf anymore. And I was like, alright, I mean, I guess we have to. It's kind of like the end of Beauty and the Beast, you know? When, oh, alright, I guess that's what he looks like. Well, alright. Don't worry. I'm already invested at this point.

Amy 26:52

That is one thing that I will say. The best retellings of Beauty and the Beast, in my opinion, are those that changed that ending. Yep.

Stacy 27:01

Book, yeah. Or Beauty by Robin McKinley. That's an excellent book. But that's young adult. There's no She doesn't get railed. Rose Daughter's good. I need to read Rose Daughter. I haven't read that one yet. I need to read this. McKinley, so so when actual monster fucking came around, I had already kind of gotten my toes wet. Mm hmm. And for me, like, I was reading Paranormal Romance because I was reading Presley Cole and anything like that that I could find. And, like, Emma Holly was one who, she had really cool, she had kind of her own version of vampirism that was like a mix of vampires and wolves that was really cool. And so it kind of became like you'd find an author that you liked and you'd kind of glom onto one. Because you never knew, like, you know, these authors could be few and far between. Or, like, I loved Presley Cole. I read a couple of Gina Showalters and liked them, but I never got into Gina Showalter the same way that I got into Presley

Amy 28:02

Cole. Yeah, I think the only Gina book that I have kept The Nim King,

Stacy 28:07

and that's a good one. Oh boy. Howdy. Is it ever? That is a good one. That was my first experience with like a true him. And so I was just like, and I loved shame. I

Amy 28:24

secondary romance.

Stacy 28:26

Which one? The one with the chick who'd been choked? The one with the throat damage? Yes. Yeah, I liked that one too. I loved that a lot. I just love that Shay was just like an unrepentant, like, I hate everything.

EJ 28:40

Mm hmm.

Stacy 28:42

But But so it was kind of like, like now you're kind of spoiled for choice where it's like, okay, well, I didn't care for this, but I can check out this or that, you know, like say I wanted to read Minotaurs. All right. Well, you know, maybe I didn't like this Minotaur story, but I could try SJ Sanders or I could try Naomi Lucas, CM Nascosta, or I could try Naomi Lucas, or I could try, you know, like there's a lot out there to choose from. And so what'd you say? Eva Priest, Evangeline Priest. Evangeline Priest, yeah yeah. And so it's just like kind of a if you're gonna get into monster fucking like now is the time to do it because you do have all of these great options that weren't available prior to sort of this

EJ 29:22

renaissance of writing that we're going through right now. Absolutely. I'm even thinking of like in this current day and age like Let's say you don't have a particular preference on monsters, there's now, like, such easy avenues of, like, are you more of a contemporary romance? We've got

Stacy 29:42

contemporary romance with monsters, historical romance

Amy 29:46

with monsters.

EJ 29:46

We got, yeah, we got historical, we even now have Regency. Yep. That's

Stacy 29:52

actually, speaking again of our Lord and Savior, Nancy Cummings, she actually wrote a Modfell story with time travel in it, which I thought was super fucking cool. So she basically said it during the, I don't think it was during the Regency, but it might have been, I can't, I don't think it was, I think it was more like 1840s, but yeah, man, she totally fell in love with a giant purple guy with horns. Or

EJ 30:19

Nancy Cummings. We are over here

Stacy 30:21

deifying this woman. Look, I have my titles. And Nancy Cummings writes Thundercats, which means that she will always get That's luck, yeah, for

EJ 30:36

me. There we go. I hope if she listens to this, she is entertained by

Stacy 30:42

us and our silliness. Especially since I tend to irritate her on Instagram as often as I can.

Amy 30:51

And of course, you also have the wellspring of science fiction monster romance. Right. It's everywhere. Depending on what trope you're wanting, oh my goodness, it's all out

Stacy 31:03

there. Well, and that's kind of the fun thing where you get the overlap between sci fi and alien because it's like, you know, maybe you're into Fated Mates, but you don't want to read about werewolves. Well, I can give you many Fated Mate alien stories, or vice versa. You like snakes? You know, that's all over the place. You like snakes? And on Earth. I

EJ 31:28

personally find tentacles to be a very classic of all the kinks. Like, you can go back deep into human, into

Stacy 31:36

like, the dream of the, the fisherman's wife where she's getting

EJ 31:41

eaten up by an octopus. Absolutely. You're, you're just into the classics if you're into tentacles, right?

Stacy 31:50

Well, and that's the other thing that kind of cracks me up, too, because, again, it's one of those nothing is new. Under the sun, yes. In heaven and earth. Because humans have been trying to fuck monsters since time began. Oh, definitely.

Amy 32:02

Everything comes around again.

Stacy 32:05

Well, and even in stuff, even in stuff that isn't romance, like there's references to monster fucking. The Zanth series by Piers Anthony. I was very into when I was a teenager. And the way that you got a centaur was a man fucked a horse. That's how all of the human monster hybrids happened. Was, you know, like to end up with a sphinx, I think it was like man fucked a lion. Like, there's, there is, it was a human fucked something, and then you got a hybrid.

EJ 32:36

We are kinky sapiens. Of all the sapiens out there, we are possibly, probably, almost certainly the

Stacy 32:43

kinkiest. Well, and that's one thing out that too, that's really funny about Our Lord and Savior Nancy Cummings is in her tall series. So that's her, her thunder cats, like in the beginning of her book, she'll put like little references, depending on like which book it is. And in Georgia and Talon's book, which is the second book in the series, some of it is letters between the characters. Some of it is snippets from books. Only exists in this universe. And my favorite is when Talen in ge, when Talen in Georgia first start talking. So tale's, the Thundercat George is the human and they both talk about being in school and taking one called an alien banging 1, 1 0 1 and the other one called it Alien Nookie 1 0 1 And there's even a book called, So you, so you wanna Made a human that's basically like. Humans are sluts, and we'll fuck anything, and also, humans are fertile, and we'll get pregnant, so, or we'll impregnate. So choose wisely. And I just thought that that was fucking

EJ 33:46

hilarious. Well, I want to kind of get to one of my meteor questions. All right, let's hear it. Stacy, for those who are over here are like, dang, this still seems like kind of a lot for monster romance. Just, just give me some recommendations, please. What would you recommend to the baby monster fuckers out there to explore? Well.

Stacy 34:08

So depending on, I mean, the problem with that is, is that monster fucking is such a wide net to cast. We'd need to, I'd need to ask, like, follow up questions. Like, are you looking for something intense? Are you looking for something fluffy? Do you want something short? Do you want something long? Are aliens okay? Do you only want monsters? Do you not want monsters? Do you only want aliens?

EJ 34:31

Right, I think we're definitely going to have to accept that anything that we offer is going to be highly incomplete, hence the previous tips of like, you know, find monsters that you either feel magnet, you know, attracted to, for whatever reason, and just go with it, accept, embrace, go with it, you are kinky, just like the rest of your species, and it's great. Yep. So that's one way You too are a pervert, friend. Yes.

Amy 34:58

And if you're not feeling that book, try another one. You don't have to feel absolutely that you're currently reading.

EJ 35:04

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Utilize the hell out of your KU membership. I agree. And like, I, and I would say to like, you know, See if Monster Romance has entered your subgenre. If not, give it a couple of months. Seriously, it keeps on expanding. This is a pretty good time, I feel like, to be a Monster Romance author. There are so many.

Stacy 35:30

One thing I would say, too, is, like, okay, so say you're coming over from, you know, like, say you, like, Motorcycle romances, right? Oh, yeah, Lark Green. Lark

EJ 35:43

Green, right off the bat. Sorry, not like, sorry, Lark Green has a good mobster

Stacy 35:49

one. Oh, gotcha, okay. But same thing, like, mobster, mobster, motorcycle, you know, like, whatever it is that you're into, and then just explore the back catalog, because like, Kate C. Wells is, she's become one of my autobys, because she does gangster, she does gangsters. Motorcycle club, but she also does, she has like a little wolf shift shifter series. Hmm. You know what I mean? Like she, because she's, she did the alpha tyrants rejected me and that whole Mm-Hmm. And let me tell you man, if you like your grovel porn, oh, it's so good. Yeah. It's

EJ 36:24

so good. So much. I feel like Yes. Yes. If, if you like some of the more darker romance. I, I do think it's worth mentioning Orcsworn and starting off with the Lady. Yeah, absolutely. I

Amy 36:38

think it's Start with the Lady and the Orc,

Stacy 36:41

do not start off with the most recently released run. Don't start with Maid, like a fucking lunatic.

EJ 36:46

Yeah, please don't do that to yourself. And, and I think it's We love

Amy 36:50

Maid, by the way. Right. It's like, that's nothing on Maid. No, no, no, no.

Stacy 36:54

It's not on a lot of backstory. I don't like Thrupple, and I like All of Finley Fenn's

EJ 36:59

throuple, right? And, and I, I think with Lady, it is, it's a good litmus test for oneself of like, do I like it this dark? And, you know, if you can handle Lady, you can handle any of the others, easy

Stacy 37:12

peasy. And the thing to remember too, that when we're saying dark, we're not just talking about like, Non con, deb con. We're talking about do you want to cry?

EJ 37:21

Right. Cause I cry. Do you want to cry? Do you want to explore the vulnerable broken parts of your childhood trauma? Right. Do you

Stacy 37:30

want to be on

Amy 37:31

an emotional rollercoaster where you ride the highs and you

Stacy 37:34

go down to the depths of despair? Absolutely. Pretty much. You can ask yourself, how is it possible to cry from one eye into the other? Well, lay on your side while you're reading and that's how.

EJ 37:45

Yes. But the nice thing is, I do find Orcsworn to be cathartic in those areas.

Stacy 37:49

Yes, hugely, yes. And the endings are satisfying. Same thing with the mage series, which is also by Finley. Yeah, if you're

Amy 37:55

not satisfied by the end, it's not a

EJ 37:58

series for you. Yeah, no, exactly. I would say move on, do something maybe a little bit cuter. Like, I honestly think if you are, if, if you like to binge Hallmark movies. Like during Christmas time. I actually think Ashley Bennett's a good one for you. I agree. Like Leviathan Fitness, like, that's a really nice series because it's got real Hallmark y vibes, and I mean that in the best way. Yes. And it's also, it's not in a contemporary. Universe. You got a like cute small townie vibes there and also her marketing and branding is just cute as

Stacy 38:39

fuck. Oh yeah, and Konky does all the covers and stuff. Konky does all the covers, so.

EJ 38:45

Right, she's got an amazing artist on her side, like dear lord.

Stacy 38:50

Who also does a lot of Ice Planet

EJ 38:51

Barbarian stuff. Right, right. And actually for that matter, like You know, everyone's like, you should read Ruby Dixon, and yeah, you should read

Stacy 38:59

Ruby Dixon. I really don't think you should read Ruby

EJ 39:01

Dixon. She's, she's a damn good story crafter. She is in the sci fi world under that pen name. And she, she is. She does just explore some darker parts. Her universe does have, like, human slavery. So if that's

Stacy 39:18

uncomfy, don't do it. She's not looking to rub your face in it, but she's also not shying away from it either. Right, right. It's unlikely to be on page, like, violence, like, sexual violence against the main characters. But a lot of her main characters have had sexual violence perpetuated upon them in their backstory.

EJ 39:37

Right, right. It is important to the context of the story.

Stacy 39:42

But the other thing too that's great about Ruby is, okay, so say maybe you're intimidated by Ice Planet Barbarians. Okay, so read her Anchor and Aspect series. Absolutely. And that's like, that's high fantasy and it's amazing fucking world building. You know what I mean? Or hey, you know what? Maybe you've always had a thing for bear shifters. Well, guess what? Ruby wrote a bear shifter series, too, and it's

EJ 40:02

adorable.

Amy 40:02

Well, say you're not wanting to go into a very long series and you're not ready for a really lengthy book. I have a series for you. The Trollkin Lovers series by Leon Riley, Lyon Riley, forgive me Lyon. I, I, I can't, I don't know how to pronounce your first

Stacy 40:20

name, but my guess would be it's, it's Leon or Leonie would be my

EJ 40:24

guess.

Amy 40:24

uh. She's also one that's recently come onto the scene last month, last year. Yeah, she kind of came out of nowhere, didn't she? She's written so many novellas. You have Stealing the Troll's Heart, Healing the Orc's Heart. Capturing the Orcs heart. What's the fourth one?

EJ 40:42

ej. Oh gosh. Keeping the Human's Heart, I wanna say. No, no, no. That's the fifth one. That's the fifth one, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh gosh.

Stacy 40:49

There are, there are many. It's another, another. It's another troll. But yeah, any

Amy 40:55

of them, them, it's, it's Lozas book. But anyways, the Troll and Love series, they're nice novella. She writes short. I love that about her absolutely

EJ 41:04

I'm right there with you, Amy. Riley's got, she has a really solid story crafter. And, like, she can deliver a whole story in a short amount of pages. And it doesn't even feel like, to me anyway, as a reader, like, wow, she really had to cut some stuff there. Like, no, she, she fits it in. Which to me speaks a shit ton about her as a writer from a skills, from like a technical standpoint. Well,

Stacy 41:35

right. Yeah. It's, it's harder to say less than it is to say more and still

EJ 41:38

get your point across. Absolutely. Right now she's kind of like, I, I kind of appreciate, the only reason she hasn't come out of nowhere to me is because Amy pointed her out to me on Tumblr and she's, She was quite proficient on Tumblr for the longest time before she started, like, publishing. And so, but like, now she's published and it does seem like, boom, she's hit the scene, ground running, and she's like, just churning them out and getting these fucking awesome ratings, including from me, and she deserves it.

Stacy 42:11

That's kind of like what happened with CM Niscasta too, like, she was kind of quietly behind the scenes on Tumblr, and then on Patreon, and then she published Girls Weekend. Which, I'm not gonna lie, I didn't like Girls Weekend particularly. I liked L'Oreal and It's

EJ 42:23

not her more popular stuff, yeah. I liked

Stacy 42:26

L'Oreal and Cash, but I, you hardly got to know Oh fuck, her name just blinked out of my head. Riz? The one who's with the, the punk. Riz. Yeah, Riz. Riz, yeah, you hardly got to know Riz. And I thought, in the first book anyway, I thought Silva was a bitch. Yeah. And then it's been in subsequent stories that you kind of come to realize Like you, you, like you, you kind of gain affection for these characters over time and exposure. Cause like in Morning Glory Milking Farm, well more in Blue Ribbon Romance, you find out Rourke is Luriel's neighbor. And Cash irritates the shit out of him, which is hilarious because he and Cash are basically the same person. And totally

Amy 43:09

a phenomenon. You can see him, Niscasta has come out and said this,

Stacy 43:11

they're the same person. Yeah, oh no, she, yeah, they say it, like L'Oreal says it in the book. Like, at some point she laughed or roared and said it was hilarious that Cash irritated him so much because they were the same person. Mm hmm, mm hmm. And but again, it was like before Girls Weekend came out, like, I didn't know who the hell she was and honestly I was into her because I was looking for orc stuff because I had read Orcsworn and then I found like one other decent orc series at that point in time which is I believe it's Tara Phillips wrote it and they're more novellas but they're really good. Yeah I think the first one is sold to the orc if I remember if I'm remembering right. But So I was just like, fuck yeah, it works. And then she had all of the, like, just sexy as shit illustrations by Illustrian. Oh my goodness, yes. Fuck yes. And so

Amy 43:59

Well, she's also working on some in her fantasy world, too. The sad part is that she has taken them down from Tumblr, and I totally get that, because obviously it's not the complete story that you're getting there. So it's like Yeah, I'm taking this down because eventually I'm going to be producing something a bit more substantial.

Stacy 44:19

Right, some more is going to come of it, I just have to take it down for now. And And so it's really fucking, it's, that's the really cool thing about this, is that, I mean, you get these people who are like, they appeared overnight, but it's like, they didn't really appear overnight, they've been here quietly working for years. Cause it's the same thing with Ruby Dixon, when I started reading Ruby Dixon, nobody knew who the fuck Ruby Dixon was, other than perverts like me, who were reading Ice Plan of Barbarians. It wasn't until she blew up on BookTok that all of a sudden everybody was reading Ice Planet Barbarians, which is great, I'm glad she got the exposure, but she said herself that, like, her, like, just, like, the attention levels people had on her jumped 400 percent or something like that because she went viral, you know? Right. And, but, but it's just a, it's just, it's interesting how it's that they came out of nowhere, and it's like, no, they really didn't. No, they're only just now gaining widespread attention, basically, and I'm not that's not a criticism. I'm just pointing out that a lot of the people that people say, Oh, they came out of nowhere. And I'm not talking about you. I

Amy 45:33

found it funny because a lot of their viewers that I that I have watched and whatnot. In the time that I've seen their videos, they were basically not targeting, but they were focusing a lot on those. Monster Romance books that had reached BookTok

Stacy 45:49

Right. Yeah, because they joined the trend of, Oh, everybody's talking about this. I want to get some of that attention.

EJ 45:56

Oh yeah, for sure. It's part of their, their whole job as content creators. Yeah. So I get it. It's

Stacy 46:01

the, you know, it's the whole thing with, you know, and then Tiffany Roberts blew up on BookTok because of the the

Amy 46:06

Rick series. Yep. Spider's Mate was amazing.

EJ 46:10

Yeah, I thought Spider's was Morning Glory Milking Farm. And honestly, like, it's a good, it is a good beginner book. I have to say. Especially because I think what's fun about it is the premise is very porny. And it is frankly very porny. But it's more than just porny. It's actually very sweet.

Stacy 46:33

And Nisgast is really

EJ 46:34

good at that. I mean, she is. I think, like I think for those who do need that sweetness, the Cambric Creek stuff, like, you're not going to go wrong. It's all sorts of different kinds of sweet. I, I could, I can definitely say there are some exceptions like run run rabbit, like, yes,

Stacy 46:56

but she was open at the front that this was a darker.

EJ 46:59

Yeah, exactly, exactly. And so like, she, she does a lot of her due diligence like you just have to read the synopsis. Yes.

Stacy 47:09

She will warn you. I think with her, too, what she's so fucking good at is she understands people, people, like, she understands when you ache or something. Whether it's something you can obtain or not. Like, one of the things that made The Maven Feast, which is part of the Wheel of the Years series, with Anne, yeah, with Anzen and Ladybug, like, part of what made that, So heart rending was that they were both so fucking lonely. And you could tell how lonely they were, but neither of them knew how to fix it because Ladybug is neurodivergent, and Anzen, the way his entire species is built is you find your queen and you serve her, and he was never able to find his queen. And then he finds it in Ladybug, you know, and so it's just this beautiful, like, really loving story of lonely people finding each other, even if one of those lonely people happens to be a fucking spider.

EJ 48:15

I seem to vaguely recall that CM Nostosta has a marketing background. She might, and I think do, and it wouldn't shock me at all if it has helped her in Oh yeah,

Stacy 48:31

I, I don't see how it could.

EJ 48:33

Well, like in her book marketing for sure but also like, I don't have a formal book marketing degree, I've only worked for marketers as like, you know, the, the smart techie in the room. But I, I did always find it kind of adorable how, like, a lot of marketers will think about like, The stories of people. It's motivating them.

Stacy 48:56

Right. Well, yeah, because you can't appeal something to them if you don't know what makes them

EJ 49:00

tick. Right. And so, there's a part of me that kind of wonders, like, whenever she's building up characters, like, this is one of the reasons I would love to, like, sit down and ask her just some, like, general crafting questions of, like, So, do you have, like, a customer persona? Or something like that for your, for your characters because it would work. It would work. Gosh darn it. It would absolutely work. So, but anyway, yeah, so Sam Nescasta, perfect for baby monster fuckers. Yeah, I

Stacy 49:33

think so too, because, because again, she's really good at taking an unreal situation and making it very real world acceptable. Like there's a story in Blue Ribbon Romance where Rourke is reflecting on he had a feline humanoid neighbor who she wanted to heat because they didn't have heat clinics at that point in time. Oh, yeah. And she wanted to heat and she was just like run, like, walking up and down the street naked, like, begging somebody to fuck her. And how it was, like, super embarrassing for her afterwards and stuff like, and, like, that's not something you think about, like, you think about how hot it would be to be with, like, Oh, you know, I fucked him through his teeth. It's like, but what happens if you don't have a partner? Right. You know, like, or there's, she has a short story series with a, I can't remember the The, the girlfriend's name, but the, she's dating an Oni named Kenta.

EJ 50:23

Yeah.

Stacy 50:23

Mm hmm. And like, that one is really sweet because I think she's technically part shifter, but she's, she's skewed entirely human. She can't, she can't shift or anything and her dad abandoned her and her mom. Mm hmm. And so like, you know, she focuses on like, she feels like there's, there's a, you know, part of her heritage that she can't access. And, you know, and it's, again, it's the kind of thing that you don't think about when you think about, like, sexy werewolves. And don't get me wrong, I like thinking about sexy werewolves, but it would fucking suck if you were in the sexy werewolf community and couldn't become a fucking werewolf. Yeah, absolutely. Even though you were a member of the sexy werewolf family, you know? Yeah, yeah. And by the way Because I think that's a big part of her

EJ 51:06

appeal. I, I absolutely agree. And By the way, all of these books, of course, as usual, I will, I will make sure that we have a list in our show notes so anyone who's, like, freaking out, I want to follow these books. We got you. We got you. Yeah.

Stacy 51:24

We will have you. I would also, if you want, if you're not sure if you want intense or if you want sweet, I would actually recommend Susan Trombley. Yeah. Because she has the bigger Eridian Mate series, which it's intense and dark in some places and deals with some pretty heavy themes. But then she's got the sweet verse, novella, spinoffs, and every one of those is so fucking delightful. It is so fucking sweet and cute and hilarious and delightful. And it's in the same universe. It's just, they're just not as long and not as intense as the original trilogy.

Amy 52:02

Another tip to offer for any baby monster fuckers slash monster romance readers, Since this is actually becoming a bigger thing now in publishing, mostly indie publishing, look at the content warnings in the books. Yes. Just look, look at that and see if anything on there is a red flag for you because that book is possibly not for

Stacy 52:28

you. Right. And I will say, however, that I fucking hate this. trend that some authors are embracing where they go for a full list of content warning, visit my website. That just means I'm not going to read them because I'm not going to go to your fucking website to figure out if your book's going to offend me or not. If you can't even be asked to mention it on your fucking Amazon page. And I know that part of that is Amazon limiting stuff, but there are other authors who managed to squeeze it in. And if you feel like you can't, then you're just not the author for me. Yeah, at least put the main

Amy 52:58

ones in the book. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, the main ones that that you feel would be that are mostly encompassed within your book, like, right, especially if it's non con or

Stacy 53:10

dub. Yes, anything pertaining to what could be sexual assault or abuse are things that you really need to be conscientious about warning reader about.

EJ 53:19

Any form of abuse and yes, and it's totally cool. Reading content warnings is a form of self care. Fuck yes.

Stacy 53:28

It's okay to read something and be like, I don't think this is for me, man. Yep. Yeah. And

Amy 53:33

just stop reading. Just stop reading.

Stacy 53:36

Not for me. Exactly, you just didn't

EJ 53:38

mesh.

Stacy 53:39

You ain't gotta swipe right on everybody on Tinder, you know what I'm saying?

Amy 53:42

There's so many books out there. Oh yeah. You don't have to read everything that everyone else in the

Stacy 53:48

world is reading. Yeah,

EJ 53:49

exactly. The, the FOMO is not real. It's only in your head. Yes. Yeah. Embrace

Stacy 53:56

JOMO. Which is the joy of missing out. I, you know, as somebody who lives for canceled plans, I can second this.

EJ 54:08

in summary, take care of yourself, dear

Stacy 54:11

readers. And if it's something that you know you don't like, don't keep trying to read it to make it work. No. Right. No. Do

Amy 54:22

not force yourself to finish a book that

Stacy 54:24

you are not liking. Exactly. If

Amy 54:26

you're Hate reading, hate reading is, is far too much energy. You don't need that negativity in your

Stacy 54:32

life. I'll spite read where I you know, like for example, the, I mean, I was going to read it anyway, but the S. J. Sanders Halloween novella, now I, I bought it because fuck that person. You're going to enjoy it anyway. That's not just spiteful. You're going to enjoy it. I know. Well, no, but I'm, but I'm just saying like, even if it hadn't been, if it had been like an Amish romance and the cover on the picture or the picture on the cover was an Amish woman looking forlornly into the horizon and they gave it two stars and said, I don't like Amish romances and I don't like horizons. I still would have been like, fuck you. I'm buying the book. Oh my goodness. Because you're an idiot. That's why. Like,

Amy 55:13

please, Walt, you don't have to read everything that everyone else is reading. That's what's so great about the

Stacy 55:20

book world. And just because somebody, like, you see a lot of hype and shit on TikTok, like, do your own fucking research. Like, I was really curious to read Sarah J Maas. I have nothing against this woman. I do not know her. I wish her nothing but the best. But I did some research into her books, and there was some stuff in the books that I was like, I don't think that's for me. And I'm just gonna give The whole, a Kotar thing amiss because there's stuff in there that I don't like and so why should I subject myself to that and I'm not helping her by giving, by forcing myself to become a reader of something I don't

EJ 55:56

enjoy. Especially when she has, like, a, an entire army. Yes.

Stacy 56:03

Who will probably come and gut me because I said I don't want to read it.

EJ 56:07

Quite all right. The point is, at least, dear readers, at least from where I'm standing, embrace DNF. It's a good thing.

Stacy 56:17

Let's

Amy 56:18

go with the FOMO,

Stacy 56:19

y'all. And life is too fucking short to read shite writing.