The Beauty and the Orcs

She was ruined by an orc. Now his enraged ex wants to finish the job…

EJ, Amy, and Stacy have their BIGGEST episode yet. Literally. This is a beast of an episode for this beast of a book. This is truly an Orc Sworn fan's discussion. We go deep into Grisk culture, trauma healing, what this story means for the future of Orc Sworn, and, of course, good orc seed. 

Be sure, too, to check out more awesome stuff by our dear Finley! Visit her website here: https://finleyfenn.com

Music is called "Undead Bride" by Pagefire https://soundcloud.com/nerdymetalhead202/undead-bride

Transcript

EJ 0:01

welcome back, everybody, to another episode of Tales from the Orc Den. We're getting back to our roots with our OG series, Finley Finn. Our orc goddess has bestowed upon us the beauty and the orcs, which I think is so interesting that I almost called it lady, because beauty and lady they're not synonyms, but they're very close. And this is Definitely. Such a different Orc Mountain than Lady. For sure. Oh

Stacy 0:32

boy. Yes. Rosa's little bit in the, towards the end where she's like. Nobody had an ulterior motive. Nobody has a scheme. I have to amend the

EJ 0:44

pamphlets. I kind of love Rosa, in Subway, everyone had a scheme. Because they felt like they had to. Yeah, sure. Beauty and the Orcs, I'm going to take a stab at trying to Cover it for folks, because at this point we are enough into the series that some people are like, okay, wait a minute, which of the orcs are we at? So this one, the Disaster

Stacy 1:13

Boys, the Grisk Disaster

EJ 1:14

Boys. We are in Grisk Disaster Boys now because our boy. Sorry, I'm going to train. Yes, I was about to say Amy, I need you to help me out with pronunciations here because like my I have such a reader vocabulary for this series. I think a lot of us do. A lot of us do. I've learned so much about Scandinavian language and culture because of this

Stacy 1:39

it's the perils of being an autodidact.

EJ 1:41

Thorain gets himself into trouble because he is, once again, off. With Bryn who has kicked him out and saying like you're drunk and we knew this in the governess and the orc that

Stacy 1:57

has been building over the past several books.

EJ 1:59

Developing problem with alcohol. Exactly. So all the signs have been there. It's been really sad because you know those two are just such a sweet couple, but this alcohol addiction is. Getting in the way, which I'm sure touched on the hearts and personal experiences of some readers out there. And for sure. Yeah. And so he finds himself in a bar with a beautiful woman who has hit her own low. She's been she's in the middle being kicked out by her old boss slash kind of pimp. thing. Not her protector. Protector. Her patron is has ceased his services with her. Yes. Because he's an asshole who can't do business.

Stacy 2:46

He can't do business. He's a shit who's not good with his money. In fact, all of his successes in business are because of Kitty.

EJ 2:52

He essentially was like, I'm going to take my business consultant, who I happen to fuck, and I'm going to fire her. Exactly.

Stacy 2:59

Logical reason, don't you think? Boom!

EJ 3:02

Genius! This is Elon Musk level genius in how to handle business.

Stacy 3:09

Absolutely.

EJ 3:13

But I love her name, Kitty. And she thinks this orc is absolutely lovely. Apparently they have awesome sex. And that was, like, one of the sloppiest sex scenes that I've ever... scene written, which I think was appropriate given that it was drunk

Stacy 3:24

sex. Yeah, they were both drunk.

EJ 3:25

Yeah, it was wonderfully written. I felt that drunk sex thing coming through. Between Thrain and Kitty. Between Thrain and Kitty. Yes. And she finds herself pregnant and that ain't no good.

Stacy 3:37

So she runs. Really fast. I do want to say I like that in this moment the holy shit is that an orc is pretty like Short. She has her moment of, what the, is that an orc? And then she's just it's legal. He's allowed to be there. It checks her own bias, and it was a an interesting read to see that her reaction time was so much shorter than say, Jewel or Rosa or, what have you.

EJ 4:06

Yeah, I think one of the reasons is kitties got a certain sense of survival instinct always. I can't, especially for those who have been through traumatic situations like, Sometimes you just are like, okay, little fear instinct, you're going to shut off now. And I'm not saying that's exactly what was going on, but I could see some of that playing through, especially because she's in the middle of a panic moment. Her first thought is I got to figure this shit Orc. I've heard of some really weird shit. That could be really bad for my health. I am going to the most logical next place, which is Ork Mountain.

Stacy 4:49

Yeah, and especially since she did spend about a week getting sick. So sick. She got so

Amy 4:55

emaciated, too,

Stacy 4:56

because she couldn't eat anything. Absolutely. What's the term in pregnancy? Hypergrav Hypergravit Hypergravia emesis?

EJ 5:06

Yeah, I think Kate

Stacy 5:07

Middleton had that. Yeah,

EJ 5:10

anyway but I think that's useful context, actually, to emphasize the sort of state she's in when she meets Varun out in the middle of the woods, who is being a great communicator. Oh yeah, for sure. Meet the sarcasm.

Stacy 5:28

Great draftee junior.

EJ 5:30

Yes. We're

Stacy 5:31

going to say

Amy 5:31

Draftly Liked.

EJ 5:32

Draftly Liked. And it's because of that they have this really weird relationship from the get go because they realize, oh, Orcum helps, it helps with the morning sickness symptoms, Magical cum. Of course it is. It

Stacy 5:49

doesn't taste like bleach and

EJ 5:50

regret. I just, I love that. I love that motif about this series. The cum is magical.

Stacy 5:57

It's like soft serve instead of slightly murky hand

EJ 6:00

soap. This is why the Discord makes dessert jokes about opening up a bakery.

Stacy 6:06

Yep.

EJ 6:07

Oh my gosh. Yep. Is it seed or is it cream? We don't know. You tell us. And so they've got this weird relationship going on by the time they get to the mountain and... It's oh shit, you've met each other. And by the way, he's been so drunk in dealing with his own shit she could have died

Stacy 6:31

and if she hadn't if she hadn't taken the steps necessary and gotten herself out of town, because I don't know If Garim, A, would have made it to her in time, and B, he might have just Because he's honestly looking for Thrain and he may have peeked in and been like, all right she's got a place to live. She's obviously fine for right now. She can make her way to the mountain after the baby's born or what have you. So I, and I honestly, I just, I don't think he would have made it to her in time. I think she would have died. If she hadn't taken the steps necessary and gotten herself out

EJ 7:03

of town. Yeah. It may, I think that's very worthy to point out in a lot of ways. Kitty saved herself. Kitty saves herself a whole lot Yeah, and I'll just wrap up this summary by saying like the rest of the book is them figuring out what the fuck they are and also overcoming friends, alcoholism.

Stacy 7:24

And yeah, because at first it's what the hell are Kitty and Maren, Because a lot of it is facade, or so Maren insists. Then once that starts to level out then it's so what the hell are the three of us? Basically, because you've got Kitty and Verin couple up, even if it's only supposed to be for pretenses. But Therain is the baby daddy, yeah.

EJ 7:50

He loves it.

Stacy 7:52

Of course, anybody with a nose in the mountain is going to know what this situation is,

EJ 7:57

absolutely. Yeah, definitely. The only person he is literally fooling is Kitty. And I think that it's like part of the genius, I think, of Finley only really doing a narrative through Kitty's pur Point of view, yeah, And it's interesting, she's able to accomplish that really just because she's got a normal human sense of smell. Yeah.

Amy 8:23

Especially since she's with the clan that has the most sensitive

Stacy 8:28

noses in the mountain. It's like all the orcs to have an accidental pregnancy with.

EJ 8:33

So I think this is actually this is an interesting book, especially for all of us orcs foreign fans. I don't know if I would call this like a good first book to go into. There's a lot of there's a lot of world building going on here. It's already a brick of a book.

Stacy 8:48

If you were caught, you could definitely beat somebody to death with beauty easier than you could Lady. Oh, certainly. Yeah. Let's just say it like that.

EJ 8:57

And even then, at this point we are deep in world building, we're deep in lore, a lot of this is though for those of us who are, like, already going, eh, what the heck is going on, this is a cool deeper look into the dynamics of the Grisc and what the hell makes them. Besides almost psychic because of their smelling ability.

Stacy 9:20

Seriously. And the other thing too is, by this point in time, you, the reader, have more of a vibe on, orcs be lyin basically, orcs be orkin And so I think if somebody started with this, they would probably, if they were anything like me, they would have ended up hating Brint. Because you don't understand his rationale until the bonus epilogue. And you don't understand the whole history of trauma and everything that's unfolding behind this. So you're just gonna see him as this uptight asshole. You're not gonna understand his motivations and stuff like that. I had a lot more patience for Varun than I had for Jon. Even though I'm sure, I think John's book actually would have benefited from his POV epilogue. Yeah. Because of all of the, of all the orcs, and don't get me wrong, I love all of these books, but the two that I cannot reread very easily are Natpar and John. Yeah. Just because the betrayal. Lady hurts, but it doesn't hurt the same way that the betrayal. A, the betrayal from Nat, and then just the sheer abuse from Dawn. Yeah.

EJ 10:26

The reason

Amy 10:26

I would really want to reread Librarian, though, is obviously the side

Stacy 10:31

action from Simon. Yeah, of course. And then, again, don't get me wrong these books are eminently rereadable. I just personally have a I have to, like Skip around when I reread those, unless I'm really in the mood to self flagellate and then sit down and read it all the way through.

EJ 10:45

That's fair. I would definitely say for this book, one should at least read Eris before they read this. Yes. Just because it sets so much of a precedent, again, of all that trauma that both of those two sweet orcs are dealing with. It also gives you a sort of. A good enough origin story of, like, how they ended up deciding, yeah, we're a thing.

Stacy 11:10

There is a but even then, they weren't really a thing. It was more like a Part of what makes their relationship so intriguing and very different from Maid's, because this is a real similar if you look at it just objectively without the actual content of the books, the setup between these two are very similar. Couple with problems, woman comes in, gets between them. So it's a similar approach, but the actual reality of the books are so different. Because you've got the, are they, aren't they, I want to be with you, but I'm holding part of myself back because I'm secretly, I want a son, I want a woman. And and the fact too is that Balder and Drapley were a mated couple. Varren and Thrain are not. And it's also muddied by the fact that Vryn and Thrain are also best friends. And they've been best friends their entire life. Baldur and Drathle, I'm sure would consider themselves best friends now. But I don't think that they were when they got together, whereas with Thrain and Vryn, they literally grew up together. Vryn protected Thrain during the horrible Grisk raid. And so I think that emotional piece has is It carries a lot of weight and it also very drastically skews the direction that they're attempting to build a relationship with Kitty, Kate, basically. Yeah. Because you, you don't just have the... What the fuck, who's this bitch and why is she on my man? But you've also got the, we're friends, do we really need a third friend? How is this gonna change the friendship? I don't know if I like this person enough to want them in the friendship. Those like secret thoughts that we have in our head whenever Your best friend is hey, I met this new super cool person, I want to introduce them to you, and you're going to be like, yeah, totally on the outside, but inside you're thinking these petty little thoughts, and nine times out of ten, you'll meet the person and be like, oh, they're great. This is great. One of my friends is actually, she's actually come right out

Amy 13:06

and said, she's you can have all your friends. I don't actually want to meet any of them. I'm like, okay, then cool.

Stacy 13:13

And I've had, I have a friend, we've literally been friends since high school. And for those of the listeners who don't know, I'm very old. I remember when Kurt Cobain was alive. I was a teenager when he killed himself, but I remember when he was alive. And I live in Washington State, so that made a lot of particular waves in my high school. And so we've literally been friends longer than we haven't been friends at this juncture in our lives because I think we were 15 when we started hanging out. And I'm going to be 46 next month. But anyway, so she and I are super tight. She has another friend that's the same. She's known her even longer. They've known each other since elementary school. And that friend and I don't like each other. And it's not the cat fight that it was when we were teenagers. It's just a case of our personalities just, it's not even jealousy at this point. I just, I don't like her. I think she's a pretentious twat. And I think she thinks that, I'm, I don't know, a plebeian twat. I don't fucking, I don't really fucking care. But, the simple truth of the matter is that just because you're friends with someone is not a guarantee that those people will be friends

EJ 14:22

with each other. Alas, but it is true. And the Gresk are they are a clan within the clan. And I thought that was, I loved that. Those moments that the morning after when Kitty's first settling herself into the mountain, and there it wasn't exactly the morning after, but like, when they bring her out, and, of course it's breakfast with their family, essentially, because,

Stacy 14:46

Yes. It's the first night you sleep with somebody. And then you wake up the next morning and we're having fucking Sunday breakfast with his family? What the fuck?

EJ 14:53

And there's an orclean running around? Okay! Yeah,

Stacy 14:56

we keep we don't need to combine the we're crossing the streams a little early here, friends. Let's not blow up downtown Manhattan,

EJ 15:02

okay? Oh, and don't forget, this is the grisk. They can smell everything. I would be dying. I would have been dying inside. Oh, absolutely.

Stacy 15:11

I just would have been it's one of those things where it's, you would probably just slap a sickly smile on your face. And then you're just like, Check yourself out as soon as you fucking can from this conversation. But Kitty also would have been well within her rights to just be like, no, we're not doing this. We are not doing this right now.

Amy 15:28

She always finds a way to... Be conversational, no matter what. Which I can understand that, I can understand that in her line of work, whether as a business consultant

Stacy 15:38

or as... A companion, a paid companion.

Amy 15:42

Yes, thank you. That is a better term than what I was thinking. I'm like, I need a better word, I don't want to call her that. But, the other funny thing is remember, it is the first night that they're in Vryn and Thrain's room, however, only Kitty sleeps in the bed.

Stacy 15:58

Vryn

Amy 15:58

has brought in his emotional support

Stacy 16:01

chair. Oh yes, yeah, I forgot about the, it's time to, that Vryn is putting himself in timeout chair.

Amy 16:10

He drags this damn chair into the room. And to

Stacy 16:14

the

Amy 16:15

start, where is this possible? And the fuck he does. It's

Stacy 16:20

We're in. Imagine that. You're, your whole life has just exploded, and you've got this surprise pregnancy because of a one night fucking stand. And then you're trying to sleep,

EJ 16:32

and the guy you hook

Stacy 16:33

up with, ex, not, is now sitting in a goddamn throne and glaring at you all night while you're trying to sleep? That would just be a, do you have a closet or something? Cause I'm just gonna go in there. I need eyes not on me at this moment,

EJ 16:47

please. I just, I really appreciate how he did, he got himself his own little timeout chair, but he didn't get a normal chair or something. No, the dude got Essentially a throne, right? I'm like, Oh my dude, you wanted to be a daddy from the very start, even when you were like, sad and emotional. You were like, at the end of this, I will be a daddy.

Stacy 17:11

He was just in stern daddy mode at that point. But one thing also that I really love about this. Is that, A, it shows that sex work is just work, it's just a fucking job, Kitty was just trying to keep herself fed, and she had essentially been groomed by her mother from an abysmally young age to, to do this, essentially her mother sounds like a fucking, like a legitimate nightmare. And it also shows the, Hypocrisy of the biases that Verin keeps throwing in Kitty's face, like how she smells like all of these different men and stuff like that, and it's like, what the fuck were her choices, right? Should I starve to death on the street? A girl's gotta work. And maintains my honor? Will that, will that please you? Will you come and weep at my graveside so I'll be fucking dead?

EJ 18:00

Absolutely. It also I'm very open to your situation, gentlemen or, Orc gentlemen? Orc lords? My lords? I don't know. Yeah, and

Stacy 18:08

she's really the only one that hasn't had a bias in this entire thing. Absolutely.

EJ 18:13

How many untouched, unexperienced, virginal women are going to look at your fucked up situation and be like this is shit, but I'm going to work with it.

Amy 18:24

We can't all have a saint virgin

Stacy 18:25

like

EJ 18:26

Alma. Absolutely. Alma, oh my

Stacy 18:29

god. Alma was a unicorn. Alma is a unicorn in the mountains. Alma

EJ 18:33

is a unicorn. I think the only one who may have appreciated that from the get go was Kest. Who like, first looking at her and being introduced to her was like, oh god, you're sweet, you're so sweet, my teeth

Stacy 18:46

are hurting. You're so sweet, you make my teeth hurt, yeah.

EJ 18:49

I'm just like, damn Kest knows it. That man, that, sorry, that orc reads everyone in the mountain for filth.

Stacy 18:57

Oh, for sure, and he had to this was his survival skill. Absolutely. The thing that I like about it too is that Kest has more in common with Kitty than he does... With Varan or Thrain, because he too was sex trafficked, basically. And was groomed by his mother. For all of them, like anybody who Holy shit,

EJ 19:15

that's a good point. I had not put that line connecting Kest and Kitty. And their names start with K. Holy shit. The alliteration. Finley, did you

Stacy 19:26

do it on purpose? I think she did. Got my little tinfoil

EJ 19:29

hat on here.

Amy 19:32

But that also brings to mind the thing that it is that, okay, so we know the Grisk are the kind clan, I know I have touched upon this in Maid, and yet, this is what Varin throws at her, I'm like, is that in any way kind? Yes, I understand. Your dude betrayed you. She had no idea about

Stacy 19:55

you. Exactly. You checked him out, bitch, You throw a diamond in the gutter and I pick up the diamond. Fuck you. The diamond's mine. Yeah. This is why I just threw it away. The grist

Amy 20:05

clan, I like them, but at the same time, what are you hiding?

Stacy 20:08

I don't think, I don't think the gris regard themselves as the kindest clan. I think that's just the like, The trailing name that the other clans have hung on them, essentially.

EJ 20:22

I guess you look at the grisk, yeah, I guess you would say they're kind.

Stacy 20:26

And the fact that they held on to more of their women, too. That's true,

Amy 20:30

because they have a larger, they are the largest of the clans. There must be a reason for that. They must treat their women kindly.

Stacy 20:37

Maybe compared to previous generations, but abuse is still abuse, yeah. Ain't getting a get out of jail free card for that one, motherfucker.

EJ 20:44

You could be very socially adept, but you can use that for bad as well as good. That's right! Maybe the Grisk aren't so much kind as they are socially adept.

Stacy 20:55

Yep! Sir, that just brought to mind Thrain and Thrax's dad! Oh, go on.

Amy 21:01

Okay we know I don't know what the fuck his name was. I don't like him. But basically he was It was similar to their

Stacy 21:06

name, but I can't remember.

EJ 21:08

Man, the Grisk love alliteration so damn bad. That's like my word of the day. Alliteration.

Amy 21:13

You had Rakfar and Thrain's dad, whatever. Anyways, Rakfar actually was the leader of the Grisk, and that's why Natfar has, of course, taken on that

Stacy 21:22

role. Was his dad a speaker as well? I can't remember. I

Amy 21:27

believe he was. But the thing was that they both had the same skills. Remember both.

Stacy 21:32

Both rec car and, yes, that's right. That was car. I think it was. Okay.'cause rain has that little touch of it.

EJ 21:40

Yes. Oh, crap's. Good point.

Amy 21:44

That's definitely a prime example of definite abuse there because he didn't actually claim a woman. Now, granted, he did sleep with Thrain and Thrax's mother

Stacy 21:55

twice. But he also slept with every orc's mate. Seriously. And then, because originally it was supposed to be that he would come and facilitate to help the orcs find their ideal mate. And then he started just like keeping them all for himself and had his own little unofficial harem, which honest to God of all of the clans, I think the Grisk are the ones that are closest to a cult. You've got the charismatic leader, you've got the charismatic leader, you've got the sexual abuse, you have the isolation from the other clans, which, to be fair the Grisk had to leave the mountain, it was for their the mountain was a dangerous place to stay, but at the same time, this still, That still ties in. Then you've got all of the, oh, I am the God's chosen, I am our God's chosen son, so I should be fucking all the women. I can sit and name countless cults off the top of my head David fucking Koresh. Om Shinrikyo. I can sit here and just name cult after cult and follow this exact same.

EJ 22:56

It is terrifying. I need to bring up when we were doing the Orcsworn finale, and we were talking about what would Orcs jobs be in real life, I just remembered, we said Natfar would be a good

Stacy 23:10

cult leader. Yep. He would. Yes. And I think... In a previous generation I think Thrak and Threen's dad would have gone for it, honestly. If he'd known that he could get Riches and bitches, man, that tends to be what They're the most religious!

EJ 23:25

next to the sky. The sky's got, they're, but they're not like fanatical

Stacy 23:29

about it and the sky tends to be, it's a reverence there. Yeah. There's more, A reference tends private. It's like between you and Sky, it's not a

EJ 23:39

It's not thing. Whereas with

Amy 23:42

the grist, it's definitely more, you see it more in

EJ 23:45

almost evangelical. Yeah. Oh man, fundamentalism. The cult of

Stacy 23:51

Acva not as only, not as gross as Christian fundamentalism. Yeah, I said it. You wanna fight? Let's go outside. That was to the list to

EJ 23:59

you. I still love our crisp boys. Okay. I wanna be

Stacy 24:02

very clear. Yes we do. I still freaking They're not a cult. They're not a cult. No, not at all. But the other thing too, hearkening back to what we talked about before, is the most dangerous, like a person who would become, The best supervillain isn't a sociopath like, like Grimm's dad or something like that. It's somebody who is empathic and capable of intuiting the emotions of other people, but just don't fucking care. And then manipulating them. Yeah, because now they've got the lever, now they've got the handle. And people like that do exist, just because somebody can feel your feelings doesn't mean they give a shit about

Amy 24:40

them. Which I think that's what Sackphar did. That's

Stacy 24:43

what 100%. 100%, yeah. And I think that's what a lot of past, especially the troubled previous generation, did with women. That's why there were so many nail and bails where, personally, if it were me, I would've been like, Baldur's mom and been like, Deuce is a motherfucker, me and my kid are fuckin outta here. We're gonna go live in a cave somewhere, Where were we? so we were talking about the potential cult capabilities of the Gris. And, so we've made it back into the mountain. Merrin and Kitty are ostensibly a couple, even though it's, to Kitty's eyes anyway, more of a ruse to try and strong arm Thrain into... Magically not being an alcoholic anymore because none of them understand the concept

EJ 25:30

behind it. Because remember, Irvin,

Amy 25:32

she wants to learn a trade.

EJ 25:34

And so

Amy 25:37

Varun will help her learn a trade and then that's if she pretends to be his maid and also helps him with Freen, it's like he will help her with learning a

EJ 25:45

trade. Which I do appreciate, the only people who believe this ruse are kitty and vain. Vain.

Stacy 25:55

That's and vain. Really? And vain really doesn't believe it either. He's no, he's trying to know no himself. He deserve it. So he's just in

EJ 26:02

denial. And so I can appreciate other people being like, wait a minute, you wanna put your mate to work? And she's over here and she's over here thinking like, they don't know. I'm not really his mate. And they're over here yeah, no you're definitely. Definitely his mate. You

Stacy 26:17

guys are not just mated, but you're scent bonded. Yeah.

EJ 26:19

But I can appreciate where she's coming from and wanting to holistically look at her career, because she is very business minded, and she likes buying stuff. Why not?

Stacy 26:32

I think a big part of it, too, is she wants to go buy her own shit instead of being, like, dependent on some dickhead or other to, put her in a shitty apartment with a judgmental landlady, and then she constantly has to re refresh her dresses so she's really the one who the whole like paid companion thing is a joke here because she's doing the lion share. The only thing that's happening is he's throwing a couple of bucks at her and then he's nutting. That's really the extent of his. Participation in this, whereas she's building up his stupid fucking shipping empire and making him look good and making him look intelligent socially. Cause she knows how to word it where it sounds like it's something that he came up with, not something that she came up with and then told him about. And and he, like most men in a patriarchal society, passes it down his leg because he starts believing the hype of his own bullshit. And thinks that. He's the amazing one, not her, and then promptly shoots himself in the foot when he cuts her loose. And so she wants to be in a position where she's not dependent on somebody, and she, like I said, she can buy her own shit. And there's a lot to be said for that. And also, Hell yeah. I dabbled very briefly in sugaring. I was a sugar baby for a hot second. The work that goes into that. I would rather just have a 9 5. It's exhausting. Because you're on. You have to be on. Like, how often do you think Kitty got to just be like, I'm just gonna wear like... my yoga pants and a t shirt and eat a pint of ice cream and watch, shitty reality tv on Broadway because I just ain't feeling it. Never. That's how often she got to do that.

EJ 28:13

With work from home, you could wear your sweat pants every single goddamn day

Stacy 28:17

and never have to leave your house. Nice blouse on. I want to, I just want to not wear pants if I can avoid

EJ 28:22

it. I think that's, that is a worthy goal, honestly.

Stacy 28:26

I come home nine times out of 10 and it's time to get naked. Because I cannot tolerate the tyranny of clothing. I just want

Amy 28:33

cozy clothes when I get home. I'm like getting my

Stacy 28:36

lounge wear. Yeah, that

EJ 28:38

too. I

Stacy 28:39

love it. So yeah, so pity wanting to learn to trade is 100% I mean it's smart.

EJ 28:46

yeah. And and wanting to like, and I love how she named the, like the gris storeroom'cause wow. The great showroom, the great gr showroom and wow, what power of language? Because like when I was first introduced to that place, like even in subsequent books, I'm over here thinking like this is like some sort of communal ish. store.

Stacy 29:08

I didn't expect like a goodwill shelf or something. Or Plato's Closet or something like that. Is that what this is like?

EJ 29:14

And I'm over here wait a minute, this is a full ass store? What the fuck?

Stacy 29:19

Yeah, you find out there's clothes, there's jewelry, there's leather goods, there's sex toys, there's probably weapons maybe? I don't know. I'm sure. Yeah, there is because. Yeah, because they do orders. And also when Fuck, who was it? You luck. When Draffley was dressing Balder like a grist, Simon was looking at a dagger with Maria that he didn't already have.

EJ 29:40

And so I just, I love that aspect of it. I'm just, they're actually About to

Stacy 29:46

go in there and root around. So that's

Amy 29:48

trademarked to Finley. Oh, like Great Grist showroom. That's whatever her shop's

Stacy 29:52

going to be whenever we can get that. I support it. I support the shit out of that. Oh, that would be hilarious.

EJ 29:58

Okay so if Finley decides to expand into more merchandising, that is absolutely what the e store needs to be, the Great Grist showroom. Actually, she should

Stacy 30:11

get on that now. On Etsy, even if she doesn't do anything with it. It would be easier if she could, but... She should park it. Just park that URL. Maybe she can still sell on Etsy in Canada.

Amy 30:22

Yeah, it has to do with the shipping business.

EJ 30:26

Oh,

Stacy 30:27

yeah. Oh but she could also have somebody handle the storefront in the States.

EJ 30:30

We're not gonna talk about that, though. That's a back burner thing. Sorry. Yeah, and also talking about canadian content creators of any kind, trying to feed us American consumerists down south. That could be a whole podcast episode in itself for sure. With its like scope reaching out to even like freaking like YouTube influencers. So

Stacy 30:50

you know, the cluster fuckery that is Lewis DeJoy in the to that.

EJ 30:55

Anyway. But yeah, you can get to me like the great gross showroom is it's a one stop shop. It's like Walmart, but

Stacy 31:02

local. It's Walmart, but without all of the

EJ 31:04

troubling politics. Exactly. And I loved it. There's some really high end shit in there, and it like, varies. There were so many, this is where I like, I want to talk about the piercings, quite frankly. Because there were like, This introduced all sorts of interesting little doodads and piercing opportunities that I was not aware was even a thing. And I love piercings, like I'm not tattooed at all, but I've had some interesting piercings,

Stacy 31:33

Some interesting

EJ 31:34

piercings now. It's I'm like, tell me more!

Stacy 31:37

Amy is suspiciously quiet

EJ 31:39

in the corner. We're just, we're going to get really succinct on this with understanding of Amy's part and other folks who I understand. Like I, said in the Discord, I think it is reasonable to get a little squeamish because who actually wants to get stabbed on purpose? Except in this very specific situation.

Stacy 31:58

Yeah, that's fair. As someone who has her sensitive place as Pierce. Yes. And also has a tattoo. So if this is t m i, I apologize to all of our listeners, but

EJ 32:10

I Why wear listed as explicit.

Stacy 32:13

That's right. Let's just say I dabble in B D S M and I like fame. And I'm not into the extreme shit. I don't do bloodletting or any of that stuff. But when I got my tattoo, I almost fucked my tattoo artist immediately afterwards because I was so hyped up and turned on at the same time from the experience. And don't get me wrong, it's not like somebody pinches me and, Oh, I'm wet! But it was like such a A, it was super intimate because the dude literally had his hand on my tit for half the time, because of where my tattoo is. It was very close. And so it was like my body was sending the signals, basically saying, you're in a session with someone you like. And he's just doing his job, this is my system going haywire, but if he had been, like, if he had been in there by himself, instead of in a busy tattoo parlor, I may have made a pass at him,

EJ 33:08

to be perfectly frank. The endorphin rush is real. Now, like, when I got my nipples pierced, I did not have quite that same reaction for multiple factors. I'm also not in the community. Like that. So it's just, it's not my thing, but the endorphin rush is very real. And it is, frankly, in an erogenous zone. So it happened to be that later that night, someone had casually mentioned, Hey, should we go to a strip club? And for once in my life, I was like, we need to go to a strip club. And so we were at a, I just remember being at a gay strip club. We're surrounded by male dancers everywhere. I am showing them my tits for hours. everyone to see because I had just gotten my nipples pierced. They thought it was

Stacy 33:53

hilarious. Thank God. 100%. When I got my nipples pierced, so it was, I got my nipples pierced as a fuck you to a guy that I had just broken up with. And that's also why I got my Medusa done. Oh, cool. So I have a cyberbite, it's called a cyberbite, where I have my Medusa pierced, and I have my La Brea pierced. So that's, I have a stud in my upper lip and I have a stud below my lower lip, my library is a little low, but I also have kind of a long I don't know what you have, my lips are long? I don't know, I'm not sure how to verbalize that. Anyway! When I got my nipples done, I went by myself, and I was super nervous. Fortunately, the piercer's granddaughter was there and held my hand, which was very nice of her. But, it's super fast. I think I was in and out in 20 minutes, max. And that included waiting in line and paying. Yeah, boom. And... And then I went to the grocery store immediately afterwards, because it really doesn't, it doesn't hurt unless you bork it, basically. Unless you fuck with it, it really doesn't hurt. I never even had to wear because they were like, you might want to do sports bras that kind, bralettes, and I wore my regular bra and was absolutely fucking fine the entire time. In fact, they, because they put, on me, she put band aids over each, and only one of them even bled into the band aid when I took it off later. But, I was so mad at Fred Meyer, it's the middle of winter, I think I went into my snow boots. And, I'm walking down the dog food aisle, and all of a sudden, my nerves and my nipples went nuts. And I got these, what I refer to as power surges, because that was really the only thing I could think of to I could feel like, I got, I was getting goosebumps out of nowhere, and I could feel every goosebump as it came. Past my nipple and my nipples tightened and I almost fucking came standing in the middle of the dog food aisle. I ended up bending over with my head on the shelf and I'm like Lamaze breathing through this. And this guy stops and he's are you okay? And I'm like, yeah, I just got a dizzy spell, I'm fine,

EJ 36:03

thanks. But I would get It sounds like the press Honestly, that sounds like the sort of like setup. Of woman gets erogenous, or gets piercing ends up getting a huge power surge as you called it and which actually like it's actually a really good way to describe it that's what it feels like yeah and like they're in the middle and it turns them on they're in the middle of a grocery store i could just see that being the setup for an erotic rom yeah i can do that yeah totally so anyway writers out there's your little like you idea

Stacy 36:40

but it happened for i they happened frequently, until the nerve endings, I think, healed. But the funny part is a lot of people say, Yeah, a lot of people said that when they got their nipples pierced, They lost sensitivity. My nipples weren't sensitive and then I got them pierced and now it's like the wind blows and suddenly I can cut

EJ 36:59

glass. I had gotten them specifically because I had inverted nipples. And it was actually, after looking at all my different options, it was the most straightforward, cheapest method I could deal with that while also Probably the least invasive too, I would imagine. Yeah, it was the Also the only option I could find even working with my doctors being like, yeah, this is probably the only way that you're going to be able to quote unquote fix the situation and be able to breastfeed too, if you have, if you want to try that out down the road, which I did later. So my nipples are no longer pierced because maintaining pierced nipples and breastfeeding. Yeah, I would imagine that's a trick. Any woman who still hasn't pierced nipples and has been breastfeeding, I don't know how you did it. That sounds like a lot of work to me.

Stacy 37:49

You wouldn't, you definitely wouldn't be able to wear anything fancy. It would probably just have to be, like, your piercing bars

EJ 37:54

or something like that. And so I, I was just I got them taken out when I was pregnant because I was just like, No, it's totally understandable. So I may get them pierced later on in life, who knows? But it's that I went from no real feeling, nothing really going on here, to, no, I understand why

Stacy 38:14

everyone's don't stop. Yes, for sure. Because before, it would be one of those things where You'd really have to ream on them before it's, it would be enough for me to be like, Oh, okay. Yeah, that feels good. They took a lot like a lot of warm up to get like a tepid response. And now it's just Oh, it's cold out there. I should probably buy a bra.

EJ 38:33

It's insane. And so I can only imagine that's really what's going on with the Grisk. They're just really into, like, all that sensation play. It's almost amazing to me that the Kaesh aren't more into piercings. But also, when you've got a boom room right there. That's

Stacy 38:50

true. Meh. I would agree. And honestly, I don't think piercing is uncommon. Across the orc

EJ 38:57

species too.

Stacy 38:58

Drapley, I think, has a couple of piercings. And then he makes sure that Alma and Balder are pierced. But he's the one that was driving that. Yeah. Yeah, because they're grisk. And he likes the stamp of ownership. for sure.

EJ 39:11

Yes.

Amy 39:11

And speaking of. Adorning our sensitive places.

EJ 39:15

Go on. What do you all think of,

Amy 39:17

what do you all think of the tip of

Stacy 39:19

the ear? Is that what our boy wears? Yes, that's what our boy wears. The sounding cage? It's, it is definitely not for beginners. Hell no. And it's the kind of thing where it's it's like when you first start experimenting like as a woman, or a person with a vagina, I should say. When you first start experimenting with penetrative sex toys, right? You're gonna go for the smaller end. Your first rodeo isn't gonna be the one that looks like a fuckin two liter Coke bottle. Not recommended, certainly. If you want something that big, you gotta work on it. No,

Amy 39:51

this isn't the rear, this is the one over his

Stacy 39:55

I know. Oh, I'm sorry, I thought no, I totally understand how you get confused. With sounding, so that's where a man penetrates his urethral opening. It's the same thing where they have to work up to it. What, and again, this is a book, this is fantasy, we can write whatever the hell we want. What, Brain is Rocking seems like that's more of a, an expert level kind of thing. But, Orc Dicks also, their opening is a lot bigger than Unhuman Men. And And, I'm sure, Thrain's freaky. I'm sure he's been, he's been putting things in everything that you can put something in. So I've actually watched, and I get you can get solo solo masturbation videos of guys sounding, and it's pretty fucking hot, I'm not gonna lie. Don't get me wrong, if somebody tries to put something up my urethra, all he's gonna get is my fist, but I know in guys, it can be, like, I think it's, Weird and tickly at first, but it can be like a super pleasant or super enjoyable sensation. Okay.

Amy 40:56

I do want to read a little bit about this. Tip of your thing demonstrating good gods where the thick gold ring would sit, encircling the full base of him just as Beren's ring had the night before and how the flexible gold coil would then curl its way up around the length of his shaft, all the way up to that large gold bead at the end, with the slim rod pointing back down the middle. That doesn't go, pity managers are either shrill, inside you, but Thrain's shrug was far too nonchalant. His cheeks never bright red. Uck. But it's not really. Most of us grisc have pricks that open up easy. Uck. That's why we all long for your sweet

Stacy 41:34

little tongues. Yep.

EJ 41:36

See, there you go. There you go. I am really looking forward to Shane East reading that.

Stacy 41:44

I'm really looking forward to hearing him blush as he reads

EJ 41:47

it. He's got a great voice. Just for those listeners who are like, who the fuck is Shane? He is the, he is so far, like the voice of the orcs, the regular audio book narrator who Who voices Finley's Orcsworn books.

Stacy 42:05

Yeah, every time he draws a woman, I'm just like, I'm here. I'm right here, daddy. I'm right here. Come get me.

Amy 42:14

I know I'm doing a very poor job of it, but it's I gotta at least read this little part.

EJ 42:18

Cheers to that. Yeah, no, cause it is it was the first time, I do admit, I had come across a device like that, but I was like, I believe it. There is. There's got to be lots of devices like that out there for sure.

Stacy 42:32

I don't know that I've ever seen one that looks exactly like that. You like, usually if they're caged, it's like a chastity thing, like what Damar wears on the end. But I think it sounds hot as fuck.

EJ 42:45

Over here, like I'm vaguely hoping like some sort of like intimate body jewelers are like thinking yeah, that sounds fun.

Stacy 42:53

They might, think of all of the people that are making freaky dildos now on Etsy. Hell yeah. True us. God bless and protect them. Indeed. Yes. no, I have a sex tray. It's a pussy plug. So it's like a butt plug, but you wear it in your puss. And I don't think I ever would've found that if it hadn't been for freaky Zos becoming popular on on Etsy

EJ 43:16

I absolutely love that. I, I. The

Amy 43:21

fun thing about this particular one though, it's like the only one apparently that Ymir, who is the overseer of the Great Grisks showroom.

Stacy 43:30

They, Ymir being the best voice. Yeah, he's a cranky little bitch, isn't he? Yeah he's cranky, but

Amy 43:35

He's. He's a good one, though. He's a good one.

Stacy 43:38

Yeah, he's lovably cranky. He's not creepy cranky. No. We know who creepy cranky is. He's not a narfy. Yeah, we know who creepy cranky is. Anyways,

EJ 43:46

The orc incels. This

Amy 43:49

thing this tip of ear is the only thing there, and When Kitty brings it to Ymir, because Rainn is just so enthralled with it, and she's I gotta get this for him. It's Verun needs to give him a mating gift. Which, of course, is a thing for the grisk, apparently but anyways, she goes to Ymir, and Ymir's That

EJ 44:06

would probably eat up all of Varin's credits. That's okay! That's okay! I will take care of the rest while we're eating here. And we'll take that when Varin finds

Amy 44:20

out, though. Oh

EJ 44:21

my god. That was hilarious. The punishment. The punishment, remember it? Oh yeah. And it was beautiful and delicious. Because again, Varin is a daddy. Yeah. She totally, whether she realized it or not, she totally fed into his deepest fantasies. Oh, 100%, yeah. Like that great comic that Mr. Fenn did. Yes. We're going to have to throw it into the show notes. The comic that Mr. Fenn did. Absolutely. Of totally encapsulating the dynamic between this trio perfectly. Yes. Of the brain and... And Kitty just running around the showroom being like, Oh my God, this is so beautiful. I want it. Actually, he's going nuts with Daddy's black Amex card. Meanwhile,

Amy 45:11

Verin's in his emotional, his other emotional support chair. Yes. Specifically for the showroom because of course, Ymir supplies that because he loves Verin and he's just sitting there

EJ 45:20

watching them scatter all over. I I, it's just absolutely adorable. And it's a great dynamic that they've put together. For sure. The thing about Thrain is Thrain is your gay best friend that you can also fuck. Like your shopping buddy, but he's also interested in your vagina. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, no, he's actually he's a very specific kind of bi gentleman that I, Yes. I'm thinking of actually have a cousin who is exactly like that. Oh, really? Yeah. Come to think of it. But anyway and it also helps he is attractive. Go figure. Hell knows I wouldn't date him even if I wasn't related to him. But cause he is a walking by disaster, but it's a great dude. And I think it's interesting she loves shopping. She loves all of this stuff. And it's becoming a bit of her calling, and they actually have some really good conversations throughout this book of this concept of one's calling. It's not just on Kitty, but also like Thrain, too, because he's dealing, frankly, with some major PTSD Hardcore PTSD. Yeah, his work as part of Nats Guard. Is very triggering for him. It brings up all sorts of traumatic memories and Yeah, that's why he started drinking because he was trying to self medicate. That

Amy 46:42

was also what had him go back even after FDR had helped him, cleanse out the stuff. It's a process. And that's what Verin did not understand.

EJ 46:54

That's what none of them understood. Even Thrain. Even Thrain doesn't understand that. Yeah. It's

Amy 46:58

a process. That's the thing. And

EJ 47:02

Thrain That's why that's why there's no cure for alcoholism. Even if you don't drink anymore, you're still an alcoholic. I think

Amy 47:10

Finley Finley did a great job with that, though, because, just sharing that, because it's yes, he did relapse. However, there were things that he did in order to make amends, I believe with Varin before then. And Varin actually took steps to not explode like he normally would have. Which shows, of course, they're learning, they're growing, and of course it takes an outside party like Kitty to see, Hey, guys, you need to look at it from point C, which neither A nor B

EJ 47:40

are seeing. Which Kitty is very good at that sort of soothing the tumultuous... Explosions that happen occasionally between Corinne and Frank. They clearly needed her to fully balance out their relationship. Yeah. Which I love. It softens their sharp edges where they grade against one another. Absolutely. yeah. That

Amy 48:05

actually is a good lead in, though, for Varun and his obsession with the

EJ 48:12

crypt. Oh, my God. Oh, we need to talk a bit more about our dude, Beren. He's a character, ain't he? Literally, but also in the old timey folks way of being like, that dude's got some fucking issues. Oh, yeah. Boy, does he ever. He's so busy trying to take care of everyone around him that he doesn't address his own issues. Oh, my God. And it

Amy 48:37

shows when he Pretty

EJ 48:39

much explodes. Yeah, because he pushes himself until he can't handle it anymore and then he blows up and everybody's what the fuck, dude?

Amy 48:47

He's got anger issues. I'm like, gee, I wonder why, because people keep

EJ 48:51

asking him for stuff. And just, I would imagine hearing his parents being slaughtered while hiding grisk children underground. I'd probably be pretty fucking angry after that, too. Yeah, it'd do a number on me, personally speaking. Yeah. And I want to, I want to make sure that we talk about how Finley decided it was, Ryn, who was going to be the P o V for the epilogue she chose, right? I think it is one. It's super smart of her from a rom comi perspective to choose. All the women for p o V'cause like we said, right? Like we've mentioned kitty's, like the only one who's honestly thinking that anyone is really buying any of this dumb shit of yeah. Nobody loves me in the meantime, yeah. All the other ORs are drooling'cause they're so covetous, right? Mm-hmm. To have, to choose an epilogue where it's from his perspective, one, it was like putting nose goggles on, which is really fun and makes sense too I've, and I noticed this as well, per sense of the Orc, from Kess's point of view, Not as pronounced because there's no grisk POV but I think it's very interesting how she is different in how she describes stuff around her. The little things that the character notices, it is markedly different. Good for you, Finley, at least this reader. And probably these other readers recognize it as well. And she's good at giving her different characters, different voices. It's not just, here's the same character with a different name and a different look, it's. All of them are bringing unique perspectives of the, unique lives that they live inside and outside of the mountain. I just want to give a shout out to that that writing skill right there, because I noticed it. For growing skill as a writer. Yes, for sure. I definitely think that I, I feel like she's just really developed as a writer. Sure. All for sure. Yeah, because now the world building is really starting to pay off and it's also showing that, even after the happily ever after there's still work to do because, just because we got to this point doesn't mean that there's still, like this is a society that's. Further developing and expanding and so like stuff that you would never have thought of in Lady are now like okay now we have to deal with this by the time you get to Beauty. And I think it was just, I really loved how she chose to do the episode through Varun's perspective, very much like you can still tell like he is a healed person. He's not like everything is not good right now, but he's very healed. And it's also cool too because there was So there's the POV chapter of Varin where he and Kitty first meet. Was that Patreon only? Yeah,

Amy 52:11

that was Patreon only. We had four different chapters from his perspective, including the bonus prologue.

EJ 52:17

Okay. Yeah. That we probably shouldn't talk about that, but probably not. But consider this a plug for Finley's, Patreon. Paton. Not sponsored, but recommended. It's so much fun

Amy 52:28

on the Patreon.

EJ 52:29

Y'all. What's really cool is vain was the right choice for the epilogue too, because Thra, I like Thra because Thra isn't. Someone who has the deep brooding secrets Thrain's secrets are so secret that Thrain doesn't know he's keeping it secret. His PTSD that's why he starts drinking. And then you find out, too, that, there are a couple assholes in the mountain that are making sure that he keeps drinking. And accidentally spending Varyn's coin. But, he's the character Brain pretty much wears most of his emotions on his sleeve. He's open about the fact that he has feelings for Viren. He's open about the fact that he has feelings for Kitty. He's open about the fact that he's excited that there's going to be an Orkling. He's excited that not only is there going to be an Orkling, but it's an Orkling He's excited because it's he's gotten the best of both worlds. He's got Vryn and he's got Kitty and so Theraine is always pretty open about, like, how he's feeling, whereas Vryn

Stacy 53:37

is not. He's not as emotionally choke pointed as Drapley is, but he's had to be the strong one for so long that he doesn't know how to articulate and advocate for himself, basically. That's a big part of White, like what you were talking about before, Amy, where he goes down to the crypt. It is killing him that he is the last of his line. He goes down so that he can sense his father and his grandfather while he still can. And that's a big part of why he so wants a son, because he adores, because unlike Thrak and Thrain, Varun's father and mother were very loving, and were like a happy, very committed couple. And so that makes their murder in the Grisk camp that much uglier. And, Thrak and Thrain were like, yeah, it sucked, but Vorin's it sucked and I lost the foundation that my entire world was built on. Thrak and Thrain, I think, were pretty used to having to fend for themselves. And Vorin really wasn't. And Vorin was one of the older Grisk kids, too. So he basically became everybody's protective older brother. That with Teemo. Ren is aware that there's this shared trauma because of what happened, but he's not aware to the extent of how badly it's damaging Thrain to be doing these orc rescues because every fucking time it does, he's put back into the mindset of being this helpless orc, who the only reason that he and his brother survived were because of Vryn. And Varun is so close to Thrain that he's not seeing the whole picture, basically. And I think that's why you needed somebody like Kitty, and then later on, somebody like Ept, who is able to be like, to connect the dots, basically. Like, when you have a shared trauma, neither of you are particularly gonna want to dwell on that trauma, so it would be harder, I feel, for people who have that shared trauma, to make the connections in others. that are leading to, essentially, a trauma response. Brain drinking is a trauma response, basically. He goes into these situations, he panics, he's trying to turn the panic off, and he self medicates with alcohol. And and then it, just turns out he has a weakness for it, right? It's not his fault, it's an illness. And that's the other thing, too, is people under the mountain learning to recognize that it's an illness, it's not a weakness of character, basically. And so that was actually, I really like how she handled it when he went to CF. And F's just oh yeah, I see this before this will happen and this will happen, yeah, poor bugger. He's not, F, of all of them, is the only one Kitty's not judging, but F is the only one who really comes at it from a non judgmental perspective, basically. Where he's just yeah, it's an illness I wouldn't be able to cure it if it wasn't an illness,

EJ 56:20

yeah. He approaches it with the sensitivity of finding out, Oh, you've got gluten

Stacy 56:26

intolerance. Oh, you broke your leg. Come here, I'll fix it for you. Oh, you got, you're turning people's fertility on and off. That kind of thing. And I think that was a F's had been too sympathetic, It would have come across as disingenuous, but Ep's just never really sympathetic with any of his patients. He's very pragmatic. Practical, yeah. Yeah, get him in, get him fixed, get him out, basically, because I got a whole fucking mountain to deal with under here. Especially if he's getting proper sleep.

EJ 56:54

Yeah, exactly. Unless your name is Cast, he has no interest in being all fluffy with you.

Stacy 57:00

Not really, no. Or,

Amy 57:03

we're gonna go with nephews, too, but we're not gonna go there.

Stacy 57:05

Yeah, the his someday trainer or healer in training. But it was nice because you see most of the orcs are super fucking uptight with Thrain, and they think he's pissing his life down his leg. Kitty is sympathetic, but Kitty's also got her own shit that she's trying to deal with on top of all of this. And then it really took, I think, just like an outside source, like EPT, to be like, Oh yeah, I've seen this before. It happens a lot because of blah blah blah blah blah blah. It's an illness. And I think that's the kick in the ass that Verin in particular, but all of the orcs in general, needed as the reminder that substance abuse is an illness. And everyone, including Thrain, thinks that this just shows a moral failing. And that's not the case at all. That's not even it's, you're comparing apples to oranges at that point. Sorry, that was my world win lecture on No, it's all

Amy 57:58

good. But Ben, like you said, though, we unfortunately have outside forces that are working against Thrain because of their own reasons, because there are some this is just to show that not all orcs are the same. Not all orcs are the same. Just because they're at risk, they're all going to be happy go lucky, jolly, whatever. There are these others that have their own issues,

Stacy 58:20

and while

EJ 58:23

there is Individuals? I whatcha trying

Stacy 58:26

to insinuate here show you jealous But there's this madness of what you speak.

Amy 58:32

There's a certain level of understanding that I have for hor and

Stacy 58:36

nor Uhhuh because yes,

Amy 58:41

I feel I feel for you not being

Stacy 58:43

able to find a woman, however, The way you're going

Amy 58:46

about it, wanting this virginal saint,

Stacy 58:49

like Alma, that's not

Amy 58:51

gonna happen. Basically, he's, he scoffs. When, okay, when we're at the climax, basically, Brain

Stacy 58:59

and Vryn are

Amy 59:01

locked in the crypt. Thank you, Arthur and Noor, and What is his name? The other one, the third

Stacy 59:07

one. Can't remember. Yeah. Yeah. What is your name? One that's not a total asshole. One's. Yes. That's, yeah.

Amy 59:16

The ki the kinder one. Kinder one. What's his name? Grind.

Stacy 59:19

Grind. He's not even risk, right? He's, yeah. Grind is risk. I thought one of them wasn't even a risk. They wasn't even Aris. No. All

Amy 59:28

three are,

Stacy 59:29

but

EJ 59:30

Remember they have, I just think of them as the me band of incel.

Stacy 59:33

Yeah, pretty much. They have

Amy 59:35

the different, the di Remember, the Grisk have their two different family lines, which are the Aethan Oh, no, that's the hell

Stacy 59:40

Bryn's is, which is, I don't know what the hell it's called.

Amy 59:44

Anyways, but they're part of the one relating

Stacy 59:47

to Vryn. But anyways, two friendly lineages. They're Arthur

Amy 59:53

has been basically feeding Thrain's addiction and also stealing from him, essentially, because he's giving him low quality stuff but upcharging it like triple, and it's hello, you jackass, what the hell?

Stacy 1:00:05

But he's also changing the cost and blaming it on Thrain's drinking, basically. Yes. So he'll tell Thrain I'll get you a cask of ale for, I don't know, 20 gold pieces. But then when Brian goes to pay for it, oh, it's 50 gold pieces. No you must have been drinking, brother. It's always been this. And then he's pocketing the difference. Going back to the other thing,

Amy 1:00:26

Basically, when Kitty is trying to, say basically to all three of them, Hey, just let me write to my friends that are, like me, or whatever, other companions that would prefer to have You know, a nice safe life where they can learn a trade, perhaps find an orc of their own, and

Stacy 1:00:43

turn their noses

Amy 1:00:44

up at her because they're like, why would we want someone like you, who smells like a hundred

Stacy 1:00:49

different men? I'm like, oh, it's, yeah, it's the same. It's the thing is let's suppose just to play double that, forget it. Let's suppose that Almas II comes into the mountain, And ends up with Har and Thor, he'd still bitch about it. There would still be something wrong. Because he doesn't actually want a mate, he wants a real doll with a pulse, basically. So nothing that he got was gonna satisfy him. He doesn't want an autonomous being who, like every autonomous being, comes with a past and their own needs. And the fact, too, that, Kitty has done what she had to survive, I personally think is much more commendable, and she's a much more rounded person because she's seen facets of life. That someone like Ella or Jewel may not have seen in their own difference, and that's not, I'm not throwing shade on anybody, but, Kitty's got a, Kitty's a survivor, is basically what it comes down to, and the others haven't had to survive, other than maybe Rosa did. I just survive on their backs, basically. Alma too. Would have been, except that wasn't, she, she was a virgin when she, yeah, that's true. That's true. Sorry, I forgot where we were. I

Amy 1:02:07

forgot what there was. So nevermind. I'm sorry. I was associating it with work

Stacy 1:02:12

and whatnot. Sorry. Oh yeah. Like being working class, basically. Yes. Yeah. And that's another similar perspective to that. Kitty has all of it she was raised by a terrifying parent who never even once had her best interests at heart. She had her bank account at heart, basically. And so every time, Harnthor, or worse, Verin throws her past in her face. It's like what Rosa basically says when she finally loses it on John, and she's it must be nice on your high horse to never have to do something that you didn't want to do in order to survive. Because, and again, and even now, still today, like now, people are only just now starting to come around to the idea of, oh yeah, sex workers are just people with a job, not a, somehow a, morally loose woman who just really likes all those dicks in her, and it's no. No. But it always, sex work

EJ 1:03:10

always sounded sex work always sounded to me like the most intense service industry job one

Stacy 1:03:16

could ever have. Exhausting. Yeah. Because again, you're always on. You have to be

Amy 1:03:22

on. It sounds like a terrifying kind of position because unless you are able to make your own I would hope that a lot of them would be able to make their own rules when it comes to their line of work but it's still terrifying because

Stacy 1:03:36

But even if you make your own rules though You could be a bad person and it could also be too like now I'm going to have to amend my rules because None of the men who are interviewing to be my protector want that rule in place, let's say somebody has a hard rule of we'll go with pretty woman, right? No kissing. The minute you tell a certain breed of person that they can't have this one thing, that's all they fucking want. And somebody who is in a service industry like that is not going to be in a position to basically be able to say, unless she knows she's got several other potential, protectors. Down the chain, basically. It was somebody like Kitty. Kitty didn't have a choice. Anything that Dickhead told her to do, she did it with a smile because her livelihood literally depended on it. I love calling him Upchuck. Yeah, pretty much. Good old chuckles. Good old chuckle buck. But, and

Amy 1:04:31

I have to say, the scene after she's delivered to Upchuck and after, and when, You just know, you know they're going to come for her because Oh, 100%. They do. You know that's going to happen. And when they do, and then, oh my gosh, Verin starts circling around

Stacy 1:04:51

him. Yes! That was so great! And then

Amy 1:04:54

when Thrain gets involved with it too, he's exact mirror of Verin.

Stacy 1:05:00

This is genius! I would love to see this in person! Fuck yes. Fuck yes. God, it was just... I love that they basically... To wrench the room in jizz before they leave. As they should have! It was to be agreed! I agree! They should have done it on that fucking old bitch of a landlady too, right on her doorknob. Landlady's got to deal with it now because... Yeah, that's true.

EJ 1:05:28

Thank God Ork Cum is water soluble though.

Stacy 1:05:31

She doesn't need to know that. I was

EJ 1:05:34

just reading, cause I'm on Simon Escosta's Patreon, so this is just before, at the time of this recording, this is just before Blue Rim and Romance was released which is the Minotaur's POV of Morning Glory. Yep, it's the Minotaur's POV from

Stacy 1:05:49

Morning Glory Milking

EJ 1:05:49

Farm. Yep. And it was excellent. Oh yeah, it was really cute. It was a total love letter to her fans and readers. Oh yeah. It's

Stacy 1:05:57

super cute. I've never dubbed. Rourke is a brunch daddy. I was just like, wow, that is a chef's kiss of a descriptor. That is

EJ 1:06:04

absolutely it. I appreciate that in that world, that's at least Minotaur cum and Centaur cum are not water soluble. You need a special enzyme cleaner for that

Stacy 1:06:16

stuff. You need an enzymatic pod to break it down or it'll harden in the pipes.

EJ 1:06:20

And I gotta say as someone who reads both Nascosta's stuff and Fenn's stuff, I really appreciate that Finley Fenn was like, I'm gonna make my magical cum, my awesome cum, water

Stacy 1:06:33

soluble. I'm like, I see you. Because we don't have things like enzymatic cleaners under the mountain, proxy clean hasn't been invented yet in that

EJ 1:06:40

world.

Stacy 1:06:40

No. Let's wait though.

Amy 1:06:41

Let's wait though. The cottage chemists might be

Stacy 1:06:43

on to something. True, right? There we go. Once, once they're done blowing up their part of the mountain, but.

EJ 1:06:50

Oh,

Stacy 1:06:52

all I also want to talk about THRAC and DAMAR. Oh yeah. DAMAR, we have what starts as gender fluidity and then looks like maybe it's leaning into trans. And as Finley referred to it as, it's it's the, what is it, the second path? No, two spirit person. Sorry. I don't know. I'm, again I organize things weird in my brain. Yeah, a two spirit person, basically, which is how indigenous people in a lot of tribes would refer to somebody who was essentially non binary or trans. And it was handled so sensitively and so beautifully that it was, because I thought Damar was such a fucking bitch in Ella's book. You're not

Amy 1:07:35

wrong.

Stacy 1:07:36

I was

EJ 1:07:36

not ready to like him in this

Stacy 1:07:38

book. I wasn't either. I think most of those words. And so then when it's like slowly and Kitty is the one who clocks it. Where it's have you thought about wearing this? This fabric would look really nice on you. And Kitty's the one who cuts it down so that it fits Damar's frame. And Kitty is really the biggest cheerleader. And you find out Thrak supports whatever Damar wants to do, but Thrak... It's a dumbass who doesn't understand that Danmar can't read his mind. And so then Danmar thinks that, because Danmar, like they talk about in the book, they're not comfortable in a lot of clothing. Like they tend to wear really loose fitting, ill fitting clothing because they don't like... They don't like close fitting clothes again, sensory issues, potentially. And then you find the, Damar is really gravitating towards these dresses, and there's a black and red number that Kennedy cuts down for them. Huh, but it's the black and red one that really drives Thrak nuts. And then Damar ends up reverting back to a more masculine appearing presence, because some of the other orcs are, like, making snide comments. And then they're concerned that they think that... that Thrak's only into it because the perversity of it gives him a boner, basically. And because again, Thrak is doing a shit all job on articulating this to their mate. And that's a whole thing too, where Damar has given Thrak a mating present, which is this arm cuff that he constantly wears, but Thrak still hasn't given Damar a gift. And again, you find out Thrak is afraid of giving Damar a gift that they hate. Because, again, of these sensory issues I don't know what kind of jewelry they would like, I don't want to get them, clothing, because I don't know what kind of clothing they would like, and instead of, talking to Damar and figuring this out, he just sits with his thumb up his ass, and looks like a looks like a fuckin Inconsiderate bastard, even to Damar, kitty is really integral in finding, in Damar finding their way into who they are, because Kitty's the first person who didn't judge, basically no judgment here, let me help ya. Yeah. You're not, I don't think you're doing anything wrong I am sure that this is not the first individual that Kitty has met who has gender fluid, non binary dabbled with some of this. And

EJ 1:09:56

besides, she's very serious. She's going to be a shopkeeper, damn it. Yeah, she is. She's going

Stacy 1:10:00

to shopkeep. She's going to help every one

Amy 1:10:02

of her clients, no matter

Stacy 1:10:04

what their needs. Boom. Everybody's going to look fucking fabulous. Everybody. The way that was handled was, like, Really sweet. It was genuine. I felt like genuine trans representation and so what I liked about this is there was no, we're not dancing around it. This is... This is who they are, this is Damar living their truth, and, our trans siblings need our fucking protection. It was lovely seeing the sort of brisk clan within the clan closing rank around Damar to keep them safe and comfortable. And... And by the end of it, at least in private, Damar is referred to as sister instead of brother, and has gone full chastity. Has, everything like completely locked down, because obviously, and obviously in their, in, in Damar and Thrak's sexual relationship, obviously they prefer that Thrak penetrates and, Damar is penetrated, basically I thought it was really lovely, just the way that it was handled, and yeah, there were some people clutching their pearls, which is understandable there's always gonna be that segment of the population that does that, unfortunately but I also like that it was treated with sensitivity and respect. And it was a more realistic portrayal of, like it's steps to get to where you want to be comfortable, you don't just suddenly kick the door open wearing a feather boa. And announce that you're, whatever the truth it is that you realize about yourself. I just thought that was really cool. And there was... In that

Amy 1:11:38

same vein though, I'm really so happy that Thrain was the one who made Thrax's mating gift for us. That was the most precious thing. I'm like, because it was their mother's, it was their mother's. I forget what the heck it's called, but it's pretty much a tiara a tiara, a headpiece. And Frayne remembered what it looked

Stacy 1:11:57

like, And Damar, even when they were kids, Damar was obsessed with it. Yes. Because they would sometimes sneak and look at their parents jewels. And unfortunately, all of that was lost.

EJ 1:12:08

through re like this renaissance of grist goldsmithing, they're able to close some wounds that were still gaping open. Because I do think this is an interesting thing. Like when I say the grist are materialistic, I don't mean it in the sense that they're shallow. They seem to take a lot of comfort in the smells, the utility, the memory of objects

Stacy 1:12:34

around them. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, because that's the whole thing where when they're in the Grist showroom there's a big show you have to smell everything before you decide if you're gonna have it or not, or if your mates gonna wear it. And I just think that's really... Whether it's a scent of someone you don't like, or if it's just a fragrance that you find unpleasant.

Amy 1:12:51

The other thing is when it comes to the gold situation, also, that, that's what they like to give as gifts, typically, is gold, whether it's to a family member or a really close friend or their mate.

Stacy 1:13:04

That's what they give. Gifts and acts of service are really the grisk love language. Really quick, let's also talk about how Kitty does end up sending a letter and inviting friends to come to her house.

EJ 1:13:18

She had already been thinking and Offering. Hey, we should bring some outside ladies in to the mountain.

Stacy 1:13:26

Not everybody is going to clutch their pearls and order over and work.

EJ 1:13:30

Absolutely. And think of all of the series opportunities, everyone. Yeah,

Stacy 1:13:38

exactly. And so she ends up writing to her friends and I know a bunch of them come and I think are still coming. And one of them, I think she said what, like three of them had already settled, but one of them, she was with a former friend. Stacia. Yeah. Who ends up with her own grisk and is like immediately knocked up and happy. And so it is really lovely that it's not, I love that with indie writing that we're breaking out of the mold of. Only, beautiful, virginal, 18 year olds deserve to have a happily ever after. That it's yeah, you can have somebody who's experienced sex work. Or one of the things that I love about a lot of sci fi romance right now is that amputees are being included. Our campus in the Infinite City is a quadruple amputee. Nancy Cummings, one of her Modfell brides, is an amputee because she lost a leg when the Suluk invaded Earth and her skull was blown up. And there's a really beautiful, one of the Kraken books by Tiffany Roberts with Kronos, who's one of my favorite, he is one of my favorite reformed bad guys of all times because he and Drapley would just growl at each other, basically. All right. And Ava is a girl who, she loses her leg in what is essentially a shark attack. And her husband leaves her over it and dissolves their marriage. And so it's this kind of whole thing where like all of, she's, she is the only one who survived the shark attack. Because her husband fled and left her out in the water as soon as he saw the fins. Their other three friends were killed and then she lost, she ended up losing her leg below the knee. And, yeah, Blake's a bit of a shit. But so they he divorces her and she has nothing left she's left her town, she came from Edmonton, which is another place to relocate in the lodge with With Blake, and then he abruptly leaves her with nothing. And so it's actually this really awesome dynamic where she's Fuck you, I don't care anymore. And Kronos basically goes, Oh, if you're gonna throw your life away I saved it, so it belongs to me, which means you're mine. Get your ass in the wheelchair, we're going for a walk. And it's just this great... He is such a surly motherfucker, and he's a surly motherfucker with a surly bitch of a mate for the first little bit, but he helps her give her a safe place to land, basically. And but I just, I love seeing shit like that. There's a Ruby Dixon book. Ruby Dixon, for me, was the first one who started talking about sex workers because Raven, in Raven's, is it Raven's Dilemma? In The Ice Home, she's a former stripper. And then oh damn it, her name just blinked, Kat, in the Corsair's book, was an abducted human who was trafficked. And Tariq, the Misaka who saves her, he basically saves her, she's dying, she's been beaten to death. Essentially just dying in a corner of infections, and he's the one who saves her. There's another character, Iris, who had her eyes ripped out by slavers because she wouldn't cooperate. And so not only did they remove her eyes, but they removed everything. So there's no scrap of the tissue left. So her eyesight can't be restored, basically. So it's just really cool seeing that, we've got trans characters, we've got sex workers getting their happily ever after. We have people who are differently abled. Kate C. Wells wrote an amazing book with an autist, a genuinely autistic main female character named Dinah, who is... who ends up with this giant fucking biker named Heavy. And so it's just really fucking cool seeing like all of the ways that instead of pretending people who are different than the mainstream norm, instead of pretending they don't exist, instead we're embracing it. And I think it's just fucking awesome. I love it. It works as well in the monster romance community,

EJ 1:17:28

it really does. Truly, monster romance where the genitals are made up and the sexual rules don't matter. Yeah,

Stacy 1:17:35

anything goes here. Sci fi, I really put sci fi under the Mopu banner. Now we're just making up our own monsters instead of drawing from folklore.

EJ 1:17:46

Absolutely, yeah, I love that Family Friend was decided to like, let's unlock all the opportunities for the sex workers of my world, so like they can come hang out at the mountain and you know there's going to be a lot of happy orcs. As she goes into the next books because we'll be, she's already announced the next couple, right?

Amy 1:18:09

Yeah, the first one is the next of the Orc Forge, which is featuring Olar and Gerard. So we're finally getting our fan favorite ship that everyone is like

Stacy 1:18:21

we need to see. Everybody's been. Bellar and Gerard. Even though like we saw them like once for five pages in Lady and that was it. But yeah. Everybody's still thirsty for those motherfuckers. No, not Lady. Eris. It was in Eris. It was in Eris. Okay. I'm old, Amy. I'm old. It's okay.

Amy 1:18:39

That's what I'm here for. I'm here to help you

Stacy 1:18:40

remember. That's true. You're the librarian. I'm the chaos demon. Let's get this straight. And the other thing too that I like about this is I feel because this world that these characters exist in is very patriarchal, right? Like it's, it is very clearly set up that only the men in power benefit and no one else does, especially not the women and especially not the orcs. And they found a way to leave that society and subvert it into their own More balanced version of a society, basically, that's separate from the patriarchy, and I love it.

EJ 1:19:18

Which, it's I want it to happen.

Stacy 1:19:20

And yeah, yeah, you and me both, but that's the whole thing where nobody's gonna bat an eye that former sex workers are coming under the mountain, because the orcs are a bunch of sluts anyway

EJ 1:19:29

I am anticipating Olara's story being sweet, especially because his human mate is also in this very patriarchal world. And when you're in a patriarchal world, frankly, you can't even be your true self as a man. Patriarchy isn't even pro man. So people who cling to it still who are men, I've also confused me because I'm like, I don't think you really have your best interest at heart here. Oh, you clearly don't

Stacy 1:19:55

understand the dynamics that are at play.

EJ 1:19:57

So I'm looking forward to seeing that sort of dynamic. I am also looking forward to some more pork pork.

Stacy 1:20:07

I was looking at porn and I

EJ 1:20:08

was like, me too. Yes. I'm looking forward to some more orc POV because like I said before, what's really fascinating to me about how Finley Fenn's been slowly crafting the orc perspective is that it is a lot more of this sensory experience. Yes,

Stacy 1:20:27

for sure. Especially, yeah, for the

EJ 1:20:29

orcs. But yeah, I think it's bittersweet. The biggest bittersweet thing about this book is really the bittersweet thing about most of Finley's work is that she produces stuff like once or twice a year. There was like 20 2022. I feel like she was like really damn prolific. Yes. Jesus.

Stacy 1:20:53

And even that she had to push back made

Amy 1:20:57

because originally she had wanted to release made in 2021, but it was just not going to happen because

Stacy 1:21:02

it was her first piece of a book.

EJ 1:21:04

Yeah. And so I don't, this is not me saying, Finley, you need to work faster. No, you work to what your books need.

Stacy 1:21:15

So for sure, and even that compared to traditional publishing is fast. Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. Sorry,

Amy 1:21:21

but I'm saying to two prolific and well known fantasy authors. Who have not written the next of their tomes.

Stacy 1:21:30

Hello. Look what she has done. I know a comb you speak. And I don't even read that often. I'm not saying their names. I don't need to.

EJ 1:21:38

Oh, I'll say at least one of their names. Fuckin George. Get off your ass, George.

Stacy 1:21:45

Yep. I don't even read those books and I know that people are like, Izzy, are we gonna finish it? Yeah. He has a

EJ 1:21:52

fuckin Patreon. That

Stacy 1:21:53

he regularly produces on. I am not

EJ 1:21:56

a patron of his Patreon, but I just remember being like, George!

Stacy 1:22:01

Get off of the Patreon! Quit writing short stories! Quit writing short stories on your Patreon and go finish that fucking book!

EJ 1:22:11

So yeah, I'm over here I don't care, I'll say at least one of their names!

Stacy 1:22:19

I think that's the other one's first book. The man

EJ 1:22:20

is a millionaire. He can take some random chick on the internet telling him to hurry it up.

Stacy 1:22:27

Pretty much. Who's the other one? Somebody texted to me because I don't know who the other one is.

EJ 1:22:32

Oh yeah, you're going to have to tell me, Amy. I don't know. But she won't say. I That's okay. Hang on, I'm going to

Stacy 1:22:38

put it in chat. Okay. But but then you got juggernauts like Ruby Dixon, who's like one, maybe two a month.

EJ 1:22:47

Oh, Patrick Rothfuss. I haven't read Rothfuss's stuff, but he's it's high fantasy, right? Yes.

Amy 1:22:56

I attempted to read, I attempted to read The Name of the Wind. And oh my god, I got over a hundred pages and I'm like, I am

Stacy 1:23:05

so bored. Oh, don't you love that? Yeah, I am bored. I've been

EJ 1:23:10

fascinated by the concepts of Name of the Wind, have not gotten in yet. I will probably read Terry Pratchett before I read

Stacy 1:23:20

Rothfuss, personally. Yeah, Terry Pratchett's a grand old time. There are, if you want titles to start on, I can, cause I can give you, I would start with either Guards Weird Sisters, or Soul Music.

EJ 1:23:32

I will

Stacy 1:23:33

take those recommendations. For starting with

Amy 1:23:37

just I have nothing against people who enjoyed both authors works. There are a lot of people who love their works. I just feel horrible For the readers because they're waiting. I feel horrible for the authors because I don't know what it's keeping what mental

Stacy 1:23:50

Nobody needs that kind of pressure on them either. And I think that maybe

Amy 1:23:55

what no. We're not going to go there. Anyways, we know that Finley has produced amazing tomes, and I know that was something that she was concerned about. She's is it too long? Is it too long?

Stacy 1:24:06

No. No. The kind of stuff you want to talk about, you need that length.

EJ 1:24:10

we expect bricks from Finley. We expect deep world building. We expect magical cum. We

Stacy 1:24:17

expect groveling. Plenty of groveling. I want you on your knees, motherfucker. I,

EJ 1:24:22

Finley unlocked something in me for groveling. If I ever wrote Oh,

Stacy 1:24:26

grovel porn is the best. Grovel

EJ 1:24:28

porn, I didn't realize I was into grovel porn until I read Orc Swarm.

Stacy 1:24:33

My favorite is when they're like, deuces, I'm out of here. And then the hero has to come crawling up to them. It's yeah, motherfucker. Walk out, crawl back. That's right. Get on your knees where you fucking belong, you little bitch.

EJ 1:24:47

But the nice thing is, as we're waiting, for her stuff and also Tiffany Roberts of course, once they bring I in the Weber will want to talk about

Stacy 1:24:57

that. So sure. And I would totally be down for we can talk about more Tiffany Roberts stuff. Or if you guys want to go off road and I got. I got some titles for you. Okay. If you wanna try something new. But Tiffany

Amy 1:25:09

Roberts, I have read two of her standalones. I want to read the Kraken series. I do. Yeah.

Stacy 1:25:14

Same. Kraken series. Excellent. And the Infinite City, like the Infinite City is fucking amazing.

EJ 1:25:19

I say we table. These and we pick it pick this back up on our disc on our private discord. Okay. Yeah, that's and I say let's have a mini asynchronous pitch party and Actually, this kind of dovetails beautifully with a bit of homework I have for you two. I would like to have each of us with our own pages on the Orcden podcast website of our recommended reading.

Stacy 1:25:54

Oh, okay. Yeah.

EJ 1:25:56

I knew that. I

Stacy 1:25:57

would say get rekt from Stacy! Pretty much. What do you want? You want freaky? You want soft? You want funny? You want weird? I can give you weird. I got a lot of weird.

EJ 1:26:09

We're going to have to write, we're going, I think my server space has enough room for the little novella

Stacy 1:26:16

that's going to be coming. I'm going to have to, I'm going to have to break mine up into like tropes. I love it. Do you like this? I recommend this, and this. And if you like that, this author also has blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Can we put in footnotes? That's what I'm asking. Yes. And I, I have my degree in history, so it's Terrapian style all the way.

EJ 1:26:35

I am. Our website is really just a fancy looking WordPress site. I can do whatever. And the beautiful thing about WordPress is even if you're like, this doesn't fit into a traditional blog post, that's what WordPress plugins are for. So love it. Yeah. Absolutely love it. So we'll be great. So look out for that, our dear listeners in the time,

Stacy 1:27:01

Also, if you ever need to scratch your back, Bath Body Works,

EJ 1:27:05

they have that

Stacy 1:27:06

perfect point. Sorry, my back's itchy. And that is not sponsored. No, it's not, but if they want to sponsor us, please, I would love some free Bath Body Works shit. Oh, that my, we got Monster Romance line. Bath and Body Works, right with glitter. I want glitter. I want body shimmer. bath, whipped bath. Whi whipped body butter with shimmer. Yes. Take care, dear readers. We adore you. Yep, think about dicks. That's what I do. And enjoy reading. About dicks. Yes, plenty of dicks. Lots of dicks.