Enthralled by Tiffany Roberts

Stacy, EJ, and Amy are back and talking about the second book of the Spider’s Mate Trilogy, Enthralled by Tiffany Roberts.  The humans are awake from stasis. Queen Zurvashi is really angry. We talk about the Italian Renaissance, how one designs alien dicks, and much more in this eclectic episode.

Reference Notes from the Show:

Artemisia Gentileschi (https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/artemisia-gentileschi)

Mate for the Alien Porn Start by Alexis B. Osbourne (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/63116063-mate-for-the-alien-p-rn-star)

Tiffany Roberts’s  official website: https://www.authortiffanyroberts.com/

Music is called "Undead Bride" by Pagefire https://soundcloud.com/nerdymetalhead202/undead-bride 

Transcript

EJ 0:00

Welcome readers to tales of the Or Den. We're here talking about the second book of the Spiders Mate trilogy, the trilogy in Trilogy, wild Trilogy. The trilogy, the

Stacy 0:15

spiders Made Trilogy. Why Tiffany Robert by Tiffany Roberts. I just like talking. That's fun.

EJ 0:21

So let's just jump in because The end of the first book is A Hell of a Cliff Hanger.

Stacy 0:29

Dear God. Yes. So Katon is just called Gerbasi's Raft down on his Ivy's head. Yes. And so more so than it already was, we're cleaning up a body. Yep. And that's how

EJ 0:44

we start the second book.

Stacy 0:46

You're cleaning up a

EJ 0:47

body. We're in the middle. How do you feel about body hiding? Yeah. Luckily when you're in a, the jungle, the nice thing about humid atmosphere, like if you kill someone in Florida, let's say you're in luck because that body's going to decompose really quickly

Stacy 1:03

there's gonna be a lot of predators too that are gonna be drawn to it.

EJ 1:06

Absolutely. Alligators are your besties here. And the tangles got a lot of similar stuff, if you were to kill someone, let's say Joshua Tree national Park. Not as smart, honestly. I have the Order of the Good Death to thank for that I'm really into the ASCA Mortician series on YouTube.

Stacy 1:26

Oh yeah. I'm subscribed

EJ 1:27

to that as well. So good stuff. But yeah. So they've gotta get rid of the, a body alas. Eventually they're going to try to be looking for said body. And there's also still the question of the fucking humans that are still technically alive in the fucking

Stacy 1:44

tubes. Yes. Dying by inches basically.

EJ 1:47

And I think it's reasonable, like I. I think it's in even the first chapter, like Kaan really doesn't wanna wake up the humans Understandable. They are weak. They are in a really

Stacy 1:57

scenario. Yeah. It's a dire scenario.

2:00

Yes.

EJ 2:00

But I totally get where Ivy's coming from.

Stacy 2:02

We have got to

EJ 2:03

wake up the humans and that's exactly what they do

Stacy 2:06

she finally gets through to him too because she, because he's envisioning everybody will be like, he's envisioning that it's gonna be like months of training, like it was with Ivy to learn how to survive in the tangle. But she's able to point out to him that no, the only reason it took months of training for me to survive is cause we had months to take. Like humans are much more adaptable than you're giving us credit for. Like we adapt and survive basically is what we do.

Amy 2:30

The great thing though is that since Ivy is pretty much translator two

Stacy 2:35

Yes. They hopefully won't have as long to learn the language. Yes, exactly. Exactly. They can pick it up as they go because they've got their translator right there. Same with well, same with Katan and his gut and his buddies. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Exactly. And so the I like this because this kind of turns a lot of sci-fi slash monster romance on its head. Were a really popular thing. And don't get me wrong, I enjoy reading about it. Is the idea that humans are prey and they have to prove to the, a predator species that they can, that they're, they're worthy of respect. And it's one of those things where this kind of reminds people that no humans are predators too. Yeah. We're just a different kind of predator. We're not a straight up, in constant predator mode. Say a shark would be, instead we're persistence predators. We're basically, we'll walk your ass until you dropped in. Yeah. Yep. And so it's one of those things where our adaptability is a sign of our predatory nature, basically. There's a reason why we became the apex predators on our planet. And it's not because we have the sharpest teeth or TAs or scales or wings, but because we can adapt and use that adaptation to survive basically. And so Ivy is basically driving that into Q's head where it's we'll have humans that all have an entirely different skillset. We'll have humans that, some humans can do this, some humans can do that, and we'll have humans that, you know Yeah. They're not gonna feel great and they're, we're gonna need it to like, take some time, basically. But it's not gonna be as long as you're thinking it is, especially because we've already gone through this and now we know what to do to help them to adapt and survive, basically.

EJ 4:17

Exactly. And so they wake up the humans and it's a process. And you've, we've definitely got a variety going here with their different stuff going on and I didn't

Stacy 4:32

know. Yeah. And I really liked that too because we did get a nice sort of cross section of humanity here with the other seven when they're awoken. Like you've got Diego, who's of potentially Hispanic extraction and he's a nurse, so Excellent. We've got a little bit of medical advice. We've got, your standard khaki wearing white guy who's the IT guy, he's the one who explains that the ship is modular and he tries to hack into the ship to figure out what the hell happened. Wait, and Huh? I thought he was black. No, I thought he was white. No. Are we talking about the gay one, John? No. The gay one is black. Is he? I guess I fucking missed that. I guess I just imagine like your average khaki wearing. Okay, so he is an average K wearing? Yeah. Will, it's will, yeah. Yeah. Will was black. Okay. I missed that. That's okay. That's even better. Now that I think, and I think I do remember something along the lines of, dark skin than the other. Yeah. This human had darker skin than the other humans. As the bricks are identifying them or observing them. And then you have, who's the Asian one that Ruka immediately falls for, what's her name? Amia. Am. Or Amia, yeah. And then, however you pronounce it may just how I pronounce it, my head. Oh, whatever. Then you have poor Ella who has stasis sickness and is not getting better and better. She's, and yes, she's our farmer. Yes. She just wanted a better, she wanted a better life. With wide open spaces. Basically she wanted the adventure. Yes. And then we have Cole, and I really like Cole because Cole is an unrepentant asshole at the beginning and lesser hands, he would've been the big villain of the piece. But Cole kind of eventually pulls his head out of his ass, and I personally appreciate that. And they've got a great running joke. He's like the jock hottie basically. Yep. Who thinks that, that he's there to fuck anything and he's the one who's the worst for referring to Katal is quote that thing. Yeah. But there's also a great running joke where he's talking about like his, he can do woodworking. And so there's a whole thing where he is I may not know anything about surviving in the jungle, but I can build a fuck of a deck. And everybody's man, putting up with your bullshit, that better be the best goddamn deck on the planet. And then you find out at the end of the third book, it kinda is like, yeah, it does build an amazing fucking deck. If I can interject

Amy 6:54

here just for a moment with regards to, yeah. Go.

Stacy 6:57

Okay. So

Amy 6:58

I have apparently issues with characters named Cole.

Stacy 7:02

Oh, always

Amy 7:03

are so hellishly annoying to me and I always wanna punch them right in the face. I have never met a character named Cole that I did not wanna punch in the face or kick in the UN

Stacy 7:14

where it's like kick

EJ 7:16

whenever I think of this is our little boy Colton, I think of ah, that little boy is a pain in the ass, isn't he? I have yet to meet a not pain in the ass boy, Cole or Colton for that matter. Oh really? Yeah. Come to think of it, it's total

Stacy 7:36

anecdotal. I'm trying to think of, I've known you, it's possible. Has

EJ 7:44

everything with parents down at, of the

Stacy 7:49

hundred percent course.

Amy 7:51

So getting back to our characters, yes. We also have Lacey and. Lacey has green eyes. Ooh, this who

Stacy 7:58

latches onto her. Yes.

EJ 8:00

Yes. I wonder is it the green spider?

Stacy 8:04

I did kinda like how each of the other male bricks were just yep. That one's mine. Pretty much.

EJ 8:09

Just subtly like

Stacy 8:12

whatever. Although I have to say I liked that. Cause Ercot went for the redhead, didn't he?

Amy 8:18

No. Callie has dark hair. The redhead I think is

Stacy 8:20

lace. I think. Lace. Oh, see I had a hard time telling a couple of the, of them apart and I knew I was getting, okay. So I'm wrong. Okay. So it's Ercot went for the dark-haired one, not the red head. Yeah. Yeah. I think Amaya, but I also like also dark haired. Yeah, cuz Amaya, I think is, was like Asian American. I think you're right. Yeah. Yeah. But there's a there's really great, it doesn't feel forced when each of them starts to show a preference for a human female. It honestly does really, they do a really good job in the book, building the idea of they're under the eye of the eight basically. Like through the course of these books. I really like that Katan in particular, and the others agree with them, starts more and more to believe that this was a guided thing. This was all supposed to happen, and they were supposed to form this tribe, basically. Yes. And even the fact that there were eight survivors was something that like Katan couldn't ignore. And so I liked it. And it was never anything like overt where then they immediately paired off. In fact, the other humans were pretty skied out by the bricks for quite a while. And again, totally understandable. I'm sick from coming out of stasis or I'm just sick period in Poor's case. And there's a whole god damn new world. This isn't where we're supposed to be. I'm reeling from the fact that I've been asleep for 125 years, which means that, everybody that I loved on Earth has long since passed. Even if it was a case of, it was unlikely that they'd ever get to see them again in this life. But, that's a hard thing like that. That's a, your entire world is gone basically. And all of the promises that made you voluntarily leave your world have essentially been taken from you. So it's understandable that, in a couple of instances, maybe the humans had a hard time acclimating. And I'm not gonna fucking hold that against them. But I also liked this too, because you've got to know the other bricks more and more as it goes on. Like you find out that Resh is the smart ass with a slight sense of humor, tilak is grim. He's very grim. And Ercot cracks me up because Ercot is, he's small, but he's built like a female basically, is what they say. So he's really broad. He's a beefy boy and he lost an arm in the war. And so like whenever they do the sign of the eight where they cross their two sets of arms to make an hourglass shape, he can't complete the look because he is forever missing that arm. But he's got a really fucking unexpected sense of humor that comes out in in, in weird points, like when they're getting through the swamp and that the weird eel fish are attacking them. Yep. And Ercot ends up grabbing one of them and beating it to death. And then he's arm yes. Good. Yes. And they're like, what the fuck is he saying? And they look over, he's got one of the Deads and he pushed it to his arm, which I think this is where he lost his arm, if I'm remembering correctly. I think you're right. And he just starts like wagging it back and forth. Hello. Human friends on his arm. Yes. Yes. And it cracks everybody the fuck up. And it just, the idea of this giant spider flopping this fish around and making it wave at everybody was hysterical and completely unexpected at the scene in the book. Yes. Oh my goodness. So he's got this great sense of humor that kind of comes outta nowhere and saves the day at the last minute.

Amy 11:44

Seeing just examples of these just like you said, Stacy, we're getting gleans of their different personalities throughout this first trilogy, and it just makes me even more excited for when we do get to see their

Stacy 11:57

books eventually. Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. I'm super excited about that. And again, these really sweet scenes where each of them is they're not coming right out and saying and Tillock was interested in Cali. like Tillock tends to like glare or has real strong draft vibes. And I think that's why I like a lot. He prefers to like lurk in the shadows and stare at her, but she knows he's staring at her. And then Raco keeps trying to like, I think he's trying to ingratiate himself to Amaya and she's just whatever nerd. Get me the fuck outta this situation and then we'll talk. There's a great scene where Amaya gets sick and they have pushed themselves so hard and so far and so fast that Amaya has been laid down to sleep off her illness in a cave. And Rakas, you could tell, had been trying to climb halfway into the cave with her. It was too low for the bricks to move in there, but he had just collapsed basically with his arm outstretched towards her and fallen asleep. And so it's moments like that where it's like you've got the surface level personalities, till is grim. Ercot is quiet and slow moving and Requash is lean and quick witted. But at the same time, you also find, I love that, that you get these moments of hidden depths for each of them. So they're never just carbon copies of, of Katon basically. Yeah. Like they're each their own person and it really feels like it when they're actually training them.

Amy 13:22

I do appreciate them, really helping, especially the wi the females that they are, vaguely interested in. It's like telex trying to help Lacy, with her aim or her posi her hand position

Stacy 13:34

or something like that. Yeah. I think he keeps yelling at her. She finally threatens to jam it up his ass or something like that. Something like that. We need a montage right here, people. But yeah, like all of that I really like anytime like they have to be carried, each of them is very I'll carry that one. Like no touchy motherfucker. And then you have this truly sweet relationship that develops very maternal between onset and Ella. Yes. Because Ella is so sick and she's getting sicker and they've already had at this early, fairly early on in the book, they have a little bit of a private come to Jesus moment with Diego where he says she has stasis sickness and I don't have the tools necessary to help her. Unfortunately. And so it's one of those things where it's like she's either going to get better or she's not, but her organs are shutting down, which, strongly implies that they are not. And so onset becomes very attached to Ella. Ella is so sick that she can't walk anymore, like Onset is carrying her. And there's even a very sweet scene where the night before they leave the wreckage of the ship, there's the, each of the colonists is sleeping in their their cryo pod and onset has gone to sleep on the floor next to Ella's pod, and Ella's arm is out of her pod and resting on onset shoulder. Like she needs that, that connection. Yeah. And so onset this sort of sets the in motion, the eventual, it sets into motion Ella's premature death, but it also sets into motion kind of the, like out and out war with Zhi. So now at the start of this book, Ziva is still chasing Kaan cuz she wants to fuck him. She wants him to be your cons and onset agrees to go with them because her basically, her basic thought is my maid is safe, car is safe in the city. Yeah. Your maid is not safe. You are not safe. And so my maid is safe, accurate, stay safe, honestly. I must get you to a safe place and then we can figure out, what Carla and I are gonna do basically. But there's also a really sweet moment where she a basically admits that she's in love with another female. And you can tell she's been afraid to tell Kaan this because I don't think that there's any outright societal issues with same sex relationships, but I don't think it's super common either. Yeah. And I think it

EJ 15:58

would be, it could be weird too cuz like yeah. The queen is so she's so particular about who you do publicly declare as a mate. Yes.

Stacy 16:07

Yeah. Yes. How is that? It has, it always has to be something that reflects, it has to shine positive light onto Zer, basically. Yeah. No matter who you're with. And

EJ 16:19

Yeah. And she could, might also be threatened too. What if my guard does love each other? Would that ever like conflict with their loyalty to me too? Yes.

Stacy 16:28

I think she would honestly prefer. That her fangs be in a loveless relationship because then it's all love for zhi as it should be in Z's world. And the other thing too is that you find out through the course of this, that zhi murdered their I think she challenged her, but she killed their previous queen, and she had been the head fang, so I'm sure she watches the fangs real fucking closely to make sure that one of them doesn't get the idea to copy her little stunt. Basically, despite the fact that, the fangs are supposed to protect the queen no matter what, and Z kind of broke that social contract essentially. I kill him. And yeah. Yep. And I, and it really does sound like more like it was an assassination versus an outright challenge. Yeah. When she went after the previous queen, who was the, she was the descendant of, I can't remember the Queen's name now, but there's the imagery of her all over Takara, Takari. Yeah. And she had been this like great queen who had saved them from all this stuff. But there's also there like at one point in time, Kaan notices when they're in the, what is it? It's like the Hall of Spirits or something like that, where the statues are of the great the cryp to the

Amy 17:33

Queens, I

Stacy 17:34

think Yeah. Where the statuary of the great leaders have been, and there's all of this bass relief imagery that's carved into the walls that's been scratched out. Yeah. But Katan realize it's a, it's of males because the females only have six legs and the males have eight. And all of the figures that have been scratched out have eight legs. You can see that the eight legs still. So there's some kind of historical coverup that's going on where maybe males weren't regarded as the way zhi treats it is. It's like kind of the way that like, like males treat women in a patriarchal society, a pat your head, oh, you pretty little thing. Here's some money. Go buy yourself something pretty. That's how Zhi treats the males that she interacts with. There's some

EJ 18:19

pretty toxic MS stuff

Stacy 18:22

going. Yeah. Oh yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. And so the implications. Is that Zhi has had all of the references to like heroic males, rubbed out basically. Like she's trying to purge that from history to keep the male spiders subjugated essentially and in their place, by claiming that this is how it is and this is how it's always been. Yeah. And by, by covering up history, it's basically a reflection of our own history where it's only been in the last 30 years basically, that the realization of Oh yeah, women impact history too. And I'm saying that as somebody with a fucking degree in history, that a lot of history has been lost because it wasn't an old dead white guy. Yeah. That that created the history. And so a lot of stuff that, there, there are artists that have been lost for 500 fucking years because everything that they did was attributed to a male artist like Artemesia. Gentle Eshi is who springs immediately to mind, who was this fascinating, amazing renaissance painter. And did one of the greatest representations of Judith beheading allies that I've ever seen. And she was considered a lost artist until the 1960s because her father had been an artist and she was married to an artist. And so all of her work was attributed to them. And it wasn't until a female scholar, I think in the sixties started actually digging and realized, oh, no. Artemisia painted all of these, she was essentially erased for 500 years. And so the same thing is going on in. Bricks society, at least this offshoot of it. Because this kingdom, like ever since Zhi has taken over and this kingdom is sick. Yes. And there is a slow poison. And that slow poison is sitting on the throne basically. So essentially I don't believe that at any point in time, Zhi has done anything to further the wellbeing of the kingdom itself. And in fact, I think Serva would be happy if the kingdom died with her. Oh yeah. Very much. Like when the time came when if she died of old age as a glorious queen on her throne. Like she would probably be goddamn delighted if the city became her masum. Oh yeah. Very

EJ 20:27

much she's got like really weird, to make a Game of Thrones reference very little fingery

Stacy 20:31

vibes. Bob stick word for it. I never read

EJ 20:33

Game of Thrones. Oh yeah. It's and also a similar thing if for those who've watched the H B O show in this case, like Little Finger is very clearly a schemer who would just as happily watch the Kingdom burn if he failed as anything else.

Stacy 20:48

Gotcha. If he, if I can't have it, no one can kind of thing. Yeah, exactly. That's very

EJ 20:52

much like her attitude as well. I, it's, yeah. It just gets worse. Yeah. Pretty much. Yeah, I feel like actually a good chunk of this book. I, like we said before it, a lot of it is getting to know who are these new humans. Let's also get to know some of Katana's friends. Katana and Ivy's relationship is growing. They're doing more sexual exploration. I think this is a good time to talk about Catton's Dick because that's that was also a great time for Ivy to talk about Catton's Dick. Yes, I agree. And I don't think she quite realized like we do have foreshadowing when they're, when this, when they're having their sex scenes in the first book, I like, there's something more going on cuz she's feeling stuff down there.

Stacy 21:42

Yes. But she doesn't quite, yeah, she's talking about she feels something right, like brushing on the inside of her kind of thing. And

EJ 21:49

it's not unpleasant at all. But she's also I don't know what the heck's going on. He's got like these tendrils that come out of him,

Stacy 22:00

like feathery they look like crinoid or oid. I don't know how to pronounce that. I've only ever read it. It's okay. Like c it looks like C lil,

EJ 22:07

yay. There we go. I would love to hear they're fury looking. I'd love to hear from Tiffany and Robert what was that process sitting down? Yeah. Designing this dick. How did that go?

Stacy 22:20

I'm really curious to know, cause I've never really done any research into like actual spider biology. I don't know what an actual spider. Looks like. So this could very well be something that they drew from nature. We got questions. Tiffany Roberts. True. Very true. Like in Alexis b Osborn's Mate for the Alien Porn Star, which is an excellent book, and I suggest everybody reads it. She has an intersexed what would be the main male character, except that character is neither male nor female. And she based their biology on flatworms. They basically attack each other with their penises and whoever wins penetrates the other, and then the other becomes pregnant and the victor passes on their genes that way basically. Okay. And so this was, so she based her stuff a lot on that. So they tend to be very cuz it's supposed to, it starts out, it's supposed to be a booty call. And or the I that she's with, they have like aquatic, they're aquatic e evolution. So they're like mer people, but without the tails. And there's a scene where they go Orrin goes to penetrate her for the first time, and he ba they basically tell her, do not flinch. Do not try to struggle away. Use your words if you have a problem because you'll trigger my mating instinct. And so basically they're a very aggressive species sexually. And so I just thought that was a cool translation, into a sentient being. And so it's entirely possible that cata junk could be drawn from something similar. Absolutely fascinating. Yeah. And it could even be like species specific, yeah. Yeah. There could be like one spider out there that turns out has these little fury bits and they're the only one. Yeah. You're gonna choose. That's the one I would've

EJ 24:04

chose. I admit I'm on the Tiffany Roberts Patreon, so I would be I would be perfectly happy if they like devoted a couple of paragraphs into how we

Stacy 24:15

designed Dicks. You should ask'em. They'd probably answer. Yeah. Like I said, they're super fucking nice people. I used to be on their Patreon too. I can't afford it right now, but it was a great Patreon.

EJ 24:26

Yeah. There are some really good indie authors that have, yes, great. Patreons, they are one of them. Yes. Agreed.

Stacy 24:33

For sure. Yes. The my, my only problem with the Patreon I love the idea of being able to set up, you get like a passive income stream going on that way, but they're just, now everybody has it. It's turned into that thing where it's like, when streaming first started, it was like, this is great. I don't have to deal with cable and have said Paper 17 s ESPN channels that I'm never gonna watch. Oh yeah. But now everybody has a fucking streaming. And so now it's now I'm right back where I started because I can't afford, and it's not cost effective for me to have 27 streaming services. And the thing too is if I'm gonna join a Patreon, I wanna join a, a Patreon that like, I feel like actually contributes, yeah. Because I know a lot of'em have just join Patreon for a dollar. But, and I'm not gonna lie, like I, I want the stickers, man. I want the stickers and I want the prints. Yeah. Same. And so unfortunately, I just, it's just come to the point now where it's like there are gonna be Patreons that I unfortunately have to miss out on because I can't afford to join everybody's Patreon.

EJ 25:28

It is a pity and, but I'm totally with you, Isabel, every month. And I say this is someone who is frankly, economically comfortable. Even I am over here. Like I can't just do it all. Yeah. That's just,

Stacy 25:41

And there were a couple of writers where to get to the good stuff and this is nobody like that, that we've talked about. Or it's, it's not like a veiled like, how dare you Finlay Finn, or How dare you, Tiffany Roberts, like their Patreons are very reasonable. Oh yeah. Anyway, so we're talking.

EJ 25:58

Oh, okay.

Stacy 26:00

I Tions were very interesting with all of them. Oh, for sure. And course brought, she brought Katon in, and then of course they're like,

Amy 26:09

there's gonna be more of them, more of him, of course. The other, the three, the trio come down first you got Rako and

Stacy 26:18

Ercot and then tele, and then Onset comes down and holy shit. Holy. To my surprise, Teek was the last one to get on board, like rako was immediately like, yeah, man, let's do it. And so was Ercot, but teak took a minute, like to be like, yeah, all right, let's do this. Yeah. Yeah. And I thought that was interesting rather than it being a case of, again what we talked about before with these books, there's always high stakes. Even though, realistically this is gonna end with a happily ever after, you don't know everything that's gonna happen in the interim. And for all, tele X's gonna be like, nah, fuck you. I don't want to, and that's it. He's out the story, and there's always the fear that what fuck, what if one of them's a spy for Z, yeah. Unlikely in this case because they all grew up together, but, stranger things have happened. So I actually, and then like you said, I had a fear of that

Amy 27:02

In book one and mostly in book one because tele was always the last one to arrive usually in the group.

Stacy 27:09

Trust you can, we really trust you. They did a little bit of a bait and switch too, where Teec plays his cards close to the vest where you don't know if it's a case of, is he just. A naturally cautious person who just by nature is this way, or is he playing his cards close to the vest because he's actually a spy. And unfortunately, the way my mind works is once I start thinking what if TE's a spy? I'm like, fuck. What if wall there are spy? You know what if it's for Kosh? He's right there. He's right in front of you. So obvious he's hiding in plane, and so then, my paranoia takes over and we go down a drain and I have to stop reading for a little bit and maybe go eat something sweet and have a bit of a light. But with everything I kept on waiting

EJ 27:46

for that other shit

Stacy 27:47

to drop because was hoping that it wasn't, because it to me, would come across as it's too obvious. You know what I mean? They're not super ob, they don't telegraph their intent with most of their stuff. And so I was, and I really fucking hate that. Where it, I hate that almost to the same way that I hate a love triangle, where it's one of those things where it's like, it feels like low hanging fruit. Oh. But the best friend was the betrayer. And it's there are stories where you can do that. I've read stories before where, like through the entire thing, I'm just like, God, this best friend's a douche bag. And then you find out that they were the betrayer. And I was still like, oh shit, I was just so busy thinking that they were a douche bag that I didn't actually expect them to do that. And stuff like that, like it can be done well, but for the most part, the, my friend was my betrayal all along is usually like my least favorite thing.

EJ 28:35

The betrayal to come from a place of love that hurt

Stacy 28:40

hard. Oh, hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. And then, so we have the bait like I said before, they did a bait and switch where you spend the whole time going is talent gonna get with the program or not? That when he shows up and then suddenly onsets there, and you're like, oh shit. Onsets coming too. And so it was one of those things where it was like, you didn't even bother stressing over if she was gonna come or not, because you assumed she wasn't. Yeah. And so I thought that was very, like all of that was very cleverly set up and put into motion. It

EJ 29:06

was, oh fuck. And I think it was like also really it was nuts because Zer Vai is like already noticing something. Something is fucking up. Yeah. Yeah.

Stacy 29:17

It, she's not stupid. Like she's evil, but she's not stupid.

EJ 29:20

No. If you were already nervous, like I was in book one of Katan continually going back to the city, it got really bad in the second book where I got to the point where like, where are you going? Why are you going? I know. Stop it. Stop it now.

Stacy 29:35

I know. Stop going. Just quit going dummy. Yeah. So she's And she's with you. Yeah.

EJ 29:42

And she's smelling I on him and she knows something

Stacy 29:45

and weird is us. Yes. Yeah. Cause she keeps talking about that strange floral scent that's on him. Yep. You have. And he's just a little something I'm working on. And she's so self-absorbed that, she thinks, kaons finally around coming the line and he's creating something amazing just for me. And it's no, it's the chick. It's his actual maid that he's been plucking. Yeah. Ugh. That's the smell of Girl come. I'm really sorry I said that you guys are really sorry.

EJ 30:16

And for that to be ultimately like Ivy, as soon as Onset brought Ivy, not Ivy, sorry, Ella. Ella, as soon as Onset brought Ella into the Queen's presence, like she was going to die. We all knew Ella was going to die. Yes. Fact, the fact that it was the smell that set her off just me

Stacy 30:38

so hard. Yes. And they're so went there their sense of smell is smell is so much a part of their life. Which makes sense because I mean that, I think that's how it's with spiders anyway, whether they're smelling through their nostrils or if it's through the hairs on their legs, but it's, it's a facet of their lives and it is like a major part of their life and they, it's really cleverly set up because, for humans, like our sense of smell is fine. It's not great, but Yeah. We can't detect pH like pheromones and stuff can impact us, but we can't smell something and be like, yes, this is a pheromone. You know what I mean? It's, yeah. And if you're someone like me who, because I have so much like respiratory issues, so like I, I have asthma and then I'm allergic to the whole goddamn world. So my. Respiratory tract is permanently inflamed. And so because of that, my senses of smell's not very good. And so for someone like me who really misses out on Scent Alo, it would be so easy. Like it would be one of those things where you could, o you would only, you could only fuck up once basically. And that would be it. The game would be over. And it's such a, the fact that Zhi is able to smell a human and she knows immediately everything that's gone on. Whereas if Zhi had, let's say, somehow fucked baton, we might have smelled something overpoweringly sweet on him, but we wouldn't immediately be able to our receptors aren't gonna be able to be like, yes, this is female Rick's pheromones. And clearly she's had her way with it. We can't detect any of that. And yet, for them, it's like walking in with a fucking scroll, like outlying step by step, everything that Katana's been doing with Ivy, right? Yep. And so that's a terrifying thought that it's, they have a skillset that in the case of someone like Zhi whose only intent is destruction that's not something that you can hide in the shadow of basically like Katan and Ivy had to flee because the minute Zhi was within sensing distance, she was gonna know fucking everything. Yeah. And that's it, then it came over Ivy, so Yeah.

EJ 32:44

And it's such a weird place too, that it puts the Ricks and the humans in as well. Yeah. Because it just makes it very clear like now that one of them has been torn apart. Not killed.

Stacy 32:59

Yeah. Torn

EJ 33:00

apart. Yeah. Like some sort of

Stacy 33:03

medieval, like execution fucked up in this, the thing that makes it worse, the thing that makes it worse is a, it's a mirror of what she did. To the Rick's female who challenged her at the beginning of the first book. She didn't, same thing to her. And it's it, but it's made so much worse because Onset delivers her straight into Z's hands and Onset, did not do this out of malice Onset, did not do this out of betrayal. Onset did this because she loves Ella and she doesn't want Ella to die, and the rest of them are accepting the fact that Ella is going to die. There's nothing that we can do. But onset

EJ 33:37

it still has it. She, and at that point, she still hadn't seen how fucking evil her Queen was. I don't think

Stacy 33:44

she had accepted that she knew. No, she hadn't. I think Onset is one of those people who, despite the fact that she's, I think she's the largest female in ta Carl, isn't she? She's bigger than Zhi, I think. Or she's the same size. She's not bigger size Isashi, I think. Yeah. Yeah. And but she's one of those people where, you know you meet people like this who have the potential, for like great physical violence, but they don't have the soul for it. And Onset does not have the soul for it. Onset can put down high really somebody who needs to be put down. But in her heart, she automatically sees the best in everybody. Like even after her entire family, with the exception of Katon is killed in Z's stupid war. ERCOT is maimed and they, there was a, there was the brother that they were very close to who died in the swamp. Through all of this. Onset has seen this, but there's just, she's not somebody who's built to find deception in others. Yeah. And so she knows Zhi is prob is problematic. She's very problematic. She doesn't like how Zhi is going after Kaan, but early on too, she's Kaan, if you just submit, I think it would be okay. And it's not, it wouldn't be okay if Kaan submitted, let's say Zhi would've killed him. Yes, she would. Absolutely. Absolutely. And she probably would've done something disgusting, had him skinned or something like that. Yeah. To keep the purple Oh God. Get rid of the problematic person who was inside it. And Yeah. And or she would've ripped his legs off and just used him as, like a, a semen. Yeah, a semen. Basically, which is essentially what she was threatening to do at the end of the third book anyway. Yeah. But yeah. But it's through this whole thing where Onset I think genuinely believes that if. If Kaan just calms down and goes to Zhi, then Zsi will chill out and maybe Katan will have a positive influence on her and can create positive change in the city. Uhhuh. But the problem with that is you can change him. You can never change him. Yeah. We call that Captain Save syndrome in my family. So Onset basically has not so much in her own relationship because what's her mate's name starts with the k Carla Koala is wonderful. She's a good mate to, to onset, but she is basically enacting Captain Sho Syndrome on K Katon, basically, where it's a, you'll fix her, you'll calm her down, you'll give her a brute, she would've killed her children, let's be honest. Yeah. Course. And then the minute her daughters even smelled like they were gonna be a threat, she'd have killed them. Absolutely. She probably would've killed them as they were born. There is no good in Zhi. If there was good in Zhi, say at a younger period in her life, she voluntarily gave it up. I personally don't think there was ever anything good in Zhi. Yeah. And but it's onset though. Go ahead. Yeah, it is. It's really sad. And the fact too is it's I think Onset believes that she has a relationship with Zhi that others don't have. And it's not a relationship, it's zhi manipulating the clause to give her what she wants, right? And and again, it, she's not doing any of this for the betterment of each individual member of the clause. She's doing it because it makes her look good and onset, unfortunately cannot wrap her head around this. And she becomes so, It like she, it's just this immediate maternal bond forms between onset and Ella and onset of all of them. Even Ella has accepted the fact that she's dying, like she and Ivy have a conversation about the fact that she's not likely to survive this because they have a really sweet conversation where she talks about she says, it's worth it. I'd rather die here in the wide open than at home, buried under a million people. And so it's absolutely heartbreaking. And it's this thing where through the whole thing you're like, okay, she's not out of the game yet. Maybe it'll come across some magic flower that'll cure everything. Or something to that effect. Who knows? And onset fixates on the men root, the mend mender root being the cure-all basically, and Mender root can cure a lot. But the problem is that men root is very hard to find. It's why they wage war on the thorn skulls to begin with, because the thorn skulls, I think grow it, or it just grows naturally in their area. Yeah. Yeah. And and it's capable of doing a lot, but the problem as Katon points out is we don't know what it's gonna do to a human's biology. This could make, let her live her last days in peace. It could, this, men could kill her immediately or cause her last days to be held on earth basically. And set understandably, because I honestly would've been the same way. She wants to at least try. And she asks Ella if she's willing, I think she asked Ella if there was something that could be done to save you, would you do it? She wants to give Ella a fighting chance, which is totally understandable. And in her effort to save Ella's life, she does the exact worst thing she can. No, she says she's gonna take Ella out for some fresh air because Ella is not having a good day. And she's just been, she's very sick. Her, she's very weak at this point in time. I don't even know if she can sit up at this point. And Onset never comes back. And they realize Onset has taken Ella and they try to chase her, but they don't get there in time. And Katon is caught and dragged into the Kryp, the queens where Onset has brought Ella. And it is basically look, they're little, they're cute, they're harmless, we should save them. And the minute Zhi catches with, she thinks Ella is the one that she's been smelling on Katon. So now poor Ella is not just a, an oddity to be squashed because maybe Zhi is just not feeling oddities that day. Now, poor, sick, dying. Ella has become a threat to Zsi, sorry, to Z's claim on Kaon. And she's realizing that she smelled this on him continually, like every time she's seen him since the initial interaction at the beginning of the first book, when he gives her the root men root with the drop of blood mixed in it. And they have the big throwdown where she grabs him by the throat and then she kills the challenger. But every time she's confronted Katon, since then, she has smelled Ivy on him, and now she knows where the source of the smell is coming from. And so in front of, what are the names of the. The shrouded bricks, the ones who are the mouthpieces to the gods, right? They're, yeah, they're she, what are they called? The weavers?

EJ 39:58

No, they're not the weavers, the races but they are essentially the religious order of the city. I'm trying to remember.

Stacy 40:04

Yeah. And they're the only good thing that Serva, she hasn't been able to stomp out, although she has definitely crippled them basically. Yeah. Yeah. She really hates the head speaker, whose name I can't remember. But they're really cool because they're completely en shrouded in inspired herself. I zerka, sorry, I just caught it. Say that again. What is it? Arch Speaker Vaka. Ah, okay. So I think it must just be called the speakers. And so Va, so Vaka is, she wants to help Ella because they take dealers, sorry, I just found it. Spirit speakers. It's the speakers. Okay. Spirit speakers. Yes. Speakers. And they're, there's really cool like ghostly images where they're completely enshrouded in spider silk and once you join the order, like you get the impression that it's the like equivalent of a nun's wimple, but it's way cooler. And I think the idea is that once you become a spirit speaker, the only one who can gaze upon you are like the eyes of the eight. No one else can look upon you basically. And I think the hope was that onset was gonna get her to the arch speaker. Zhi caught her, or Zhi was in there or something. Or maybe Zhi caught the smell of Ella. I don't know. And there it turns into this confrontation. And so onset is, she very gently puts Ella down in front of Zhi is this is my friend Ella, I wanna help her. She's very Ill Please. Can we have some men root? And Zhi goes fucking ballistic because she thinks this is Katana's secret mate. And she attacks Ella Ellis terrified. And she's telling onset, I wanna go back please. I wanna go back. I don't wanna be here. I don't wanna be here. I'm scared. Yeah. And she tries to go to onset and z she grabs her, she picks her up, she grips her by the throat and she rips her fucking head off. Yes. And then throws the body down on the ground in front of onset. And that is when poor onset, her rose tinted glasses are forever taken off and shattered. And unfortunately it cost Ella's life to do and so this is where, that's how the fucking book ends. That is how the book ends. Ella is murdered. Kaan is caught because Katan watches this whole thing, right? Yes. And now, yes. Yes. And so now it's fuck, who's she gonna kill next? Is she just gonna go for Kaan? Is she gonna kill onset in front of them? Onset is a formable warrior, but Onset doesn't have a killer spirit the same way that Zhi does. Yeah. And as you see in the climax of the third book, it takes a lot to put Zhi down. Oh yeah.

EJ 42:39

Yeah. So let's just wrap this up and get right into it. Cause we, sounds good. We're recording all three of these in one session. I'm ready to go. I'm ready to go.

Stacy 42:47

So I'll say however, so there's a book I'm working on, nothing at all spiritually, like these books. Originally, my main character's name is going to be Alice. I've changed it to Ella because Ella needs a goddamn happily ever after Somewhere. Somewhere. So Alice is now Ella. Because that hurt. So essentially, the book ends with Now Shit has said the fans, Zhi now knows because Onset told her that there were other humans. And Zhi basically tells onset that she's gonna go out and she's gonna kill their sad little tribe. Yeah. Basically. And that's Yeah. And tells Kaan that's what she's gonna do. And it's actually really sweet because cuz Ella's death hurts like the whole time, Ella Ella's not doing well and Ella's not, it's not looking good for Ella, but you were hoping like she would just be able to like peacefully die somewhere. It is the best things we could ever hope for. Absolutely. She dies in terror and pain and the crux to get onset and Coral to hopefully do something, to start an uprising basically against Heri. And it's also heartbreaking because as all of this is coming, like Kaan knows what's coming. Ella is scared and she's trying to go back to she knows something bad's coming, but she doesn't know what, and the entire time Kaan is screaming her name and it's really sweet in a fucked up kind of way because it also shows that these other characters, even if they're not Ivy, they're still important characters in their little tribe. Yes. Ella was a person in this story who had hopes and dreams and they were very cruelly taken away from her. Yeah. And it hurt the others around her and not just because she was a romantic partner, which it might have been in maybe like lesser hands. Yeah,

EJ 44:32

I love that about this. All right, so we'll we will get we'll pick this back up In the meantime, dear readers, we'll see you next time. Buckle in. We're going on a road trip. Yeah.

Stacy 44:45

Yeah. Shit's getting bumpy. Not just because they meet the thorn skulls and their heads are all lumpy.